So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine

[bustaheims]

If Laine has a significantly better Worlds than Matthews, I suspect he'll become the top ranked guy on a lot of people's lists.

I think Matthews is going to be special, but there is something to be said for the year Laine has put together as well. Good regular season, World Jnrs, playoffs and then if he has a great World championship, it's hard to argue with someone rating him higher.

Personally, I'd take Matthews just because I think if the guys are comparable you take a centre every time. It's easier for a centre to move to the wing than vice versa.

I generally feel the same way. I think the situation here is similar to the Ovechkin/Malkin draft. There are two guys that both have potential to be franchise level elite talents, one guy is a winger, the other a centre. The difference being that, this time around, the centre seems like the guy who's a little bit better.

 

[ZBBM]

I infer from Shanahans remarks yesterday that Matthews is the guy. Fan board threads aside, there is no real debate. Nor should there be, unless you've already got a franchise center.

 

[jonlleafs]

I love it. Ask for peoples' opinion and then criticize them for not having the basis or knowledge to give said opinion.

Anyway the guides I looked at here:

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016/4/30/11541984/average-rankings-of-the-top-12-prospects-heading-into-the-2016-nhl-draft-scouting-profiles-ranks

all had Matthews going 1st. And two of the seven had Laine going 3rd. Seems to me like it's a pretty one-sided debate. But then again, I haven't watched much of either player so who the hell knows what any of this means. Wendel, help!

Agreed.  Like Bill_Berg said.  Booooorrrriiinnnnng.

 

[jonlleafs]

Why do you say that about Marner?

Kadri, Matthews, Nylander. I don't think Marner's suited to being a 4th line center. Nylander could move to the wing I suppose; Kadri as well.

I think Nylander and Marner can both move to the wing.

JVR-Matthews-Vesey
Marner-Kadri-Nylander
Hyman-Bozak-Komarov
Someone-Gauthier-Leipsic

Or some such combo

Or some such combo

Thanks for bringing JVR back into the mix but where is Soshnikov?

JVR-Stamkos-Soshnikov
Marner-Matthews-Kadri
Hyman-Nylander-Vesey
Komarov-Gauthier/Holland-Brown

Vesey is going to be good but to expect him to be top line center right out of college is asking too much.  He may see 4th line minutes to start as well.

 

[Kin]

I love it. Ask for peoples' opinion and then criticize them for not having the basis or knowledge to give said opinion. 

If someone were to say, as many have in this thread, that they prefer Matthews based on position or what they've seen that's an opinion. Nobody challenged that. If somone were to say "most people think Matthews should go first, so I'm going to go with that" again, not an opinion exactly but whatever.

What did got challenged was when people said "there is no debate". That got challenged because that's not an opinion, that's a factually incorrect statement. There is a debate. There's a debate among NHL scouts.

Aggregating the draft rankings of various sources, some of them more legitimate than others, and saying that all of them have Matthews at #1 does not mean those rankings did not get there through debate or consideration.

For instance one of the sites that is one of your seven sources is "Draft Buzz Hockey". Now, I've never heard of Draft Buzz Hockey, I don't know what their methodology is or what they employ. A quick trip to their website makes them look a little dinky, a little sketchy but still. Does their ranking of Matthews at #1 mean there's "no debate"?

Well, this is actually what "Draft Buzz" says on their website:

Then, Laine had a terrific WJC along with his two other top prospect linemates in Aho/Puljujarvi and started to ramp up his play into the playoffs. The phenomenal show he put on to take Playoff MVP has altered the feeling with regards to the top of the draft. Matthews no longer has a firm hold on the top spot, and Laine has more chomped at and taken a piece out of (than nip) Matthews to earn real serious consideration to be 2016's guy.
 

   

Scouts. The people watching him. Websites like the one you're putting your stock in. They are saying in plain english that it's not a settled question. That opinion is starting to vary. So long as you're interested in the question to a degree beyond reading a list and trying to figure out if #1 is higher than #2, that's pretty clear.

Again, come down on the side of Matthews or come down on the side of Laine. Those are opinions. "There is no debate" is just not true. 

 

[hockeyfan1]

Take your pick: Laine or Matthews...

(Article written before the Draft Lottery)

Matthews
Matthews spent the past hockey season competing against men in the Swiss-A League. He scored 24 goals and 46 points in 36 games for the Zurich Lions. His playoffs were less stellar, as the team was swept in round one. Matthews did however, contribute three assists in those four games.

He?s an incredible talent who has all the skills needed to not only thrive, but survive in the NHL. He?s strong around the net and is able to use his size and weight to his advantage. He?s got a powerful shot and also makes great decisions in regard to his puck handling abilities.

He had a fantastic regular season in Switzerland as a player who wasn?t drafted yet. It was a unique move, but one that showed maturity and a desire to challenge himself. Matthews will also get a chance to prove he should remain number one by playing on the United States Men?s National Team at the upcoming World Championships.


Laine
Laine is a 2016 World Junior champion. He also captured all-star honours at the tournament. This year he can also add 2016 Liiga champion and playoff MVP to his impressive and growing resume.

The powerful Finnish winger has been on an absolute tear and is seen in some scouts? eyes as the true number one pick of the 2016 NHL Entry Draft. He has a bullet for a shot, he?s got the size and is extremely fast.

The young Finn is on the verge of stardom. No one is sure what his ceiling will be in the NHL, but the initial signs are extremely promising. He has also been invited to play for the Finnish team at the World Championships and will get the chance to prove he can hang with some of the best in the NHL.


                                                  ...........


...the Maple Leafs...will take Matthews. That?s not a knock against Laine in any way, rather, it boils down to the position they both play.

Matthews is a centre. A big, skilled, number one centre is among the most coveted positions in the NHL. This is exactly the type of player the Leafs have been missing since the departure of former captain, Mats Sundin.

The Maple Leafs have a glut of wingers itching to make the NHL. Laine would be an extremely strong prospect and a huge part of the rebuild, but a centre like Matthews is extremely hard to find.


http://thehockeywriters.com/would-matthews-or-laine-be-better-for-the-maple-leafs/

 

[hap_leaf]

No debate needed. Hope Auston enjoys being the most anticipated talent in Toronto in a long time.

 

[Zee]

Anyone see that Laine interview from a couple of days ago?  Guy was super chilled out it was funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o5BUvvAspw

 

[AvroArrow]

That all any of us are going by is what scouts are saying and what scouts seem to be saying is the exact opposite of "there is no debate". I'm happy and not at all defensive to admit I've watched no more of either guy than a few WJC games. 

Every year 1 or 2 scouts say the same kind of nonsense.  Last year, Eichel was " debatably" better than McDavid according to a scout or two.

So forgive us for not falling for that nonsense.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Anyone see that Laine interview from a couple of days ago?  Guy was super chilled out it was funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o5BUvvAspw

Yeah, that made me laugh.

He seems a little like a guy who would retire at 23 to go study the Cello in Chelyabinsk.

 

[Arn]

Can we trade all our other picks to Winnipeg for their 1st round pick this year and have them both?

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Can we trade all our other picks to Winnipeg for their 1st round pick this year and have them both?

 

[Kin]

Every year 1 or 2 scouts say the same kind of nonsense.  Last year, Eichel was " debatably" better than McDavid according to a scout or two.

And quite a few years those scouts end up being right. The #2 pick does end up being as good as the guy who'd been hyped as the #1 pick. Remember Hall-Seguin? Doughty-Stamkos? Jason Spezza was projected as an easy, no questions asked #1 pick after making the World Juniors at 16 and then Kovalchuk supplanted him.

Also, I'd love to see where you read someone saying that about Eichel/McDavid.

 

[Zee]

Every year 1 or 2 scouts say the same kind of nonsense.  Last year, Eichel was " debatably" better than McDavid according to a scout or two.

And quite a few years those scouts end up being right. The #2 pick does end up being as good as the guy who'd been hyped as the #1 pick. Remember Hall-Seguin? Doughty-Stamkos? Jason Spezza was projected as an easy, no questions asked #1 pick after making the World Juniors at 16 and then Kovalchuk supplanted him.

Also, I'd love to see where you read someone saying that about Eichel/McDavid.

But three scouts do suggest Eichel is more than a consensus No. 2 this season?they hint the order may reverse on draft day. ?Eichel is making it close,? says a scout whose team has a shot at the top pick

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/jack-eichel-could-go-no-1-in-2015-nhl-draft/

 

[Kin]

But three scouts do suggest Eichel is more than a consensus No. 2 this season?they hint the order may reverse on draft day. ?Eichel is making it close,? says a scout whose team has a shot at the top pick

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/jack-eichel-could-go-no-1-in-2015-nhl-draft/

"Eichel is making it close" isn't "we like Eichel better than McDavid" especially not 6 months before the draft, before McDavid had the playoffs he did.

That's a clickbait headline. It doesn't correspond to anything anyone is actually quoted as saying.

From the same article:

According to the majority in a recent poll of a dozen NHL scouts, the draft order can be written in indelible ink if not carved in stone: McDavid No. 1; Eichel next.

 

 

[Zee]

But three scouts do suggest Eichel is more than a consensus No. 2 this season?they hint the order may reverse on draft day. ?Eichel is making it close,? says a scout whose team has a shot at the top pick

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/jack-eichel-could-go-no-1-in-2015-nhl-draft/

"Eichel is making it close" isn't "we like Eichel better than McDavid" especially not 6 months before the draft, before McDavid had the playoffs he did.

That's a clickbait headline. It doesn't correspond to anything anyone is actually quoted as saying.

From the same article:

According to the majority in a recent poll of a dozen NHL scouts, the draft order can be written in indelible ink if not carved in stone: McDavid No. 1; Eichel next.

Huh? The guy above you said every year 1-2 scouts say the same thing and in that article it says 3 scouts are saying it's closer for #1 then you think and Eichel could be the guy.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

McKeen's is the only place I've seen have Laine at #1.

Matthews is as close to a consensus as you're going to get in a non-Crosby, non-McDavid draft: http://platinumseatghosts.blogspot.ca/2016/04/2016-average-nhl-draft-rankings-april.html

Take Matthews.

 

[Kin]

Huh? The guy above you said every year 1-2 scouts say the same thing and in that article it says 3 scouts are saying it's closer for #1 then you think and Eichel could be the guy.

I guess I'm not sure what you're not seeing here. If there's a race between two people there's a pretty big difference between saying "the gap is closer than you think" and "arguably, the other guy is winning". All of the scouts quoted are saying the former, the guy above me was claiming they were saying the latter

 

[AvroArrow]

"Eichel is making it close" isn't "we like Eichel better than McDavid" especially not 6 months before the draft, before McDavid had the playoffs he did.

That's a clickbait headline. It doesn't correspond to anything anyone is actually quoted as saying.

From the same article:

According to the majority in a recent poll of a dozen NHL scouts, the draft order can be written in indelible ink if not carved in stone: McDavid No. 1; Eichel next.

I guess you failed to actually read it properly.

But three scouts do suggest Eichel is more than a consensus No. 2 this season?they hint the order may reverse on draft day.

That's literally what Zee posted and what I'm talking about.  Just because a few moron scouts wanna talk nonsense doesn't mean there's a "debate".

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Anyone see that Laine interview from a couple of days ago?  Guy was super chilled out it was funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o5BUvvAspw

I think Winnipeg needs Mr. Hand on their coaching staff because it looks like they'll be drafting the Finnish Jeff Spicoli.