The Brian Burke Thread

[Kin]

A number of individual players have made great strides this year such as Kessel and Lupul just to name two, plus several young players have developed nicely (Gunarsson, Gardiner to name two) who are becoming entrenched as key players.

How is that not progress?

And other key players haven't developed or have taken pretty unfortunate downward turns leading to a team that is on pace to take only the smallest of possible steps forwards in the standings.

I mean, this isn't rocket science. 85 points last year, on pace for 86 this year. That's perfectly acceptable progress if the plan is to make the playoffs in 2019.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

This team came out of the gate flying and stayed at the top of the standings until about early November.  Other than a very short blip in December, they have stayed in the playoff seeds until only days ago.  Their goal differential up until the recent losing streak was about a +15 at one point.  Until that streak hit, they were within striking distance of 4th place. Last year, after game 4 they were out of the race completely until the final 30 games. And they could still very well make it in this year. A number of individual players have made great strides this year such as Kessel and Lupul just to name two, plus several young players have developed nicely (Gunarsson, Gardiner to name two) who are becoming entrenched as key players.

How is that not progress?

It's just blind faith at the alter of the Vatican. We should just shoot ourselves, because this team will never get better with Burke and Wilson at the helm.

There has to be quantifiable numbers to back everything up Corn Flake. It's all in the stats and numbers.

 

[Corn Flake]

A number of individual players have made great strides this year such as Kessel and Lupul just to name two, plus several young players have developed nicely (Gunarsson, Gardiner to name two) who are becoming entrenched as key players.

How is that not progress?

And other key players haven't developed or have taken pretty unfortunate downward turns leading to a team that is on pace to take only the smallest of possible steps forwards in the standings.

I mean, this isn't rocket science. 85 points last year, on pace for 86 this year. That's perfectly acceptable progress if the plan is to make the playoffs in 2019.

You can focus just on the tip of the iceberg all you want.  Doesn't change what's going on under the surface.  Many a rebuilding team has looked and done the same thing before it came together and they finally broke through.

Oh and also... season isn't over yet.

 

[Kin]

It's just blind faith at the alter of the Vatican. We should just shoot ourselves, because this team will never get better with Burke and Wilson at the helm.

There has to be quantifiable numbers to back everything up Corn Flake. It's all in the stats and numbers.

Goodness gracious. I get the feeling you won't be inviting me to your slumber party.

 

[Erndog]

A number of individual players have made great strides this year such as Kessel and Lupul just to name two, plus several young players have developed nicely (Gunarsson, Gardiner to name two) who are becoming entrenched as key players.

How is that not progress?

That's fair.

But it's also fair to point out a few "key" players took quantum steps backwards such as Kulemin and Schenn and quite possibly Reimer also.

It certainly hasn't been a linear improvement.

 

[Corn Flake]

A number of individual players have made great strides this year such as Kessel and Lupul just to name two, plus several young players have developed nicely (Gunarsson, Gardiner to name two) who are becoming entrenched as key players.

How is that not progress?

It certainly hasn't been a linear improvement.

And it never is in a rebuild.

 

[Kin]

You can focus just on the tip of the iceberg all you want.  Doesn't change what's going on under the surface.  Many a rebuilding team has looked and done the same thing before it came together and they finally broke through.

Oh and also... season isn't over yet.

I appreciate that for some the performance of the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey club is but one grain of sand among many but I'm sure you'll forgive the indulgence if I stick on it for a second.

I think things like minor league development obviously play a role in how a team looks going forward but I think in most cases it's going to be a matter of perspective and someone saying that it is uninspiring is probably just as valid as the other. Your guideline on that is probably going to be the stock you put in the talent evaluation at the top which, again, does go back to the performance of the big league club.

 

[Erndog]

A number of individual players have made great strides this year such as Kessel and Lupul just to name two, plus several young players have developed nicely (Gunarsson, Gardiner to name two) who are becoming entrenched as key players.

How is that not progress?

It certainly hasn't been a linear improvement.

And it never is in a rebuild.

Right, but usually there are signs.

This rebuild today looks no better than it did last year.  In fact, I would say it looks worse.

Last year we thought we had a goaltender. 

 

[Kin]

And it never is in a rebuild.

Not true. The first team I looked at was the Blackhawks. Their point totals from when they feel off the earth to their Championship went 59-65-71-88-104-112.

 

[rdowdall]

This team came out of the gate flying and stayed at the top of the standings until about early November.  Other than a very short blip in December, they have stayed in the playoff seeds until only days ago.  Their goal differential up until the recent losing streak was about a +15 at one point.  Until that streak hit, they were within striking distance of 4th place. Last year, after game 4 they were out of the race completely until the final 30 games. And they could still very well make it in this year. A number of individual players have made great strides this year such as Kessel and Lupul just to name two, plus several young players have developed nicely (Gunarsson, Gardiner to name two) who are becoming entrenched as key players.

How is that not progress?

It's just blind faith at the alter of the Vatican. We should just shoot ourselves, because this team will never get better with Burke and Wilson at the helm.

There has to be quantifiable numbers to back everything up Corn Flake. It's all in the stats and numbers.

Nobody is saying they can't get better because of Burke or Wilson.  They are saying they haven't yet. 

Here's the problem.  You look at the situation and *believe* it is going to get better based on whatever reasons you have.

Others look at the situation and *believe* it is not going to get better until it actually gets better. 

The third part of the problem is the definition of better.  For you it may be some prospects on the farm and a couple of fairly decent players on the roster.  For others, it's a playoff spot, and for another group, maybe it's a winning a series or two. 

For me personally, it's hard for me to accept that this is year four, and really the team is still worse than the first year after the lockout.  That was the year they missed the playoffs by one point.  I had hoped by now, that their chances of making the playoffs had increased to the point where it was a better bet that they would make it rather than not.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

can't wait to see this thread after the leafs lose tonight

 

[Erndog]

And it never is in a rebuild.

Not true. The first team I looked at was the Blackhawks. Their point totals from when they feel off the earth to their Championship went 59-65-71-88-104-112.

Didn't you just read BlueWhiteBlood?  Don't show stats!

 

[Kin]

Didn't you just read BlueWhiteBlood?  Don't show stats!

Nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrddddd!

Hey buddy, did you get a load of the nerd?

 

[Corn Flake]

And it never is in a rebuild.

Not true. The first team I looked at was the Blackhawks. Their point totals from when they feel off the earth to their Championship went 59-65-71-88-104-112.

I was referencing individual player performance, not team records .. again try to look beyond the point totals for a bit deeper analysis.

But here... the first one I looked at was: LA Kings: 78-81-89-68-71-79-101-98

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Last year we thought we had a goaltender. 

We may still, he is only what, 22? Someone mentioned sophomore slumps and such, which happen, Bozak bounced back. I'm willing to give Kulemin and Reimer the same chances. I would also go a bit further and say the "numbers" for Schenn don't show all that much regression either. His hits are on par with last year, his points are on pace to improve? No? His plus/ minus is better. No?

I'm not jumping on you, just pointing this out. I think expectations are too high, but that's me.

 

[Corn Flake]

Didn't you just read BlueWhiteBlood?  Don't show stats!

Nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrddddd!

Hey buddy, did you get a load of the nerd?

What's the difference between sisters and nerds?

Just asking.

 

[Kin]

But here... the first one I looked at was: LA Kings: 78-81-89-68-71-79-101-98

Ok, under Dean Lombardi the team's gone 68-71-79-101-98. Again, a pretty linear rebuild.

 

[Redleaf]

can't wait to see this thread after the leafs lose tonight

Yeah. It would bring out even more naysayers (corrected for Nik) and doomsdayers. Its all very shortsighted though. I think it's worth looking at the collection of the next 3 or 4 games to get a better idea of where this team stands moving forward, before we jump to any conclusions.

 

[Corn Flake]

But here... the first one I looked at was: LA Kings: 78-81-89-68-71-79-101-98

Ok, under Dean Lombardi the team's gone 68-71-79-101-98. Again, a pretty linear rebuild.

again, I was referring to individual player performance, but... let's check the standings at the end of the season.  They could quite easily show a linear path, which would at least keep you from harping on this point.

 

[Bates]

This comparison crap reminds me of player comparables in contract years.  Everyone always tries to use the best ones.  Why doesn't Burke say to Kulimin look at Brown's contract, surely you don't deserve more than that!!  Why compare Leafs to Chicago or LA?  Why not Edmonton or Calgary, Columbus?  Just kidding by the way as the Leafs do suck these days.  Still fun to watch though and Burke is right they are in the entertainment business and not the Stanley Cup business.  I just don't see why we can't edge closer to the Cup while being entertaining??