The Brian Burke Thread

[Zee]

If they become better than the Leafs it's not going to be suddenly - it's going to be finally.

Well, no, it would be again. They have made the playoffs in that span.

Well, if we're talking about the actual span I referred to, then so have the Leafs. 

We're talking post-lockout, Columbus actually made the playoffs, only the Leafs and Florida haven't.  If Florida makes it this year, the Leafs are the only team out of 30 that hasn't.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

If they become better than the Leafs it's not going to be suddenly - it's going to be finally.

Well, no, it would be again. They have made the playoffs in that span.

Well, if we're talking about the actual span I referred to, then so have the Leafs. 

We're talking post-lockout, Columbus actually made the playoffs, only the Leafs and Florida haven't.  If Florida makes it this year, the Leafs are the only team out of 30 that hasn't.

Thanks.  3000th time I've been reminded.

You may be talking about that, but I said last 13 drafts, and then Nik referred to 'that span', so I assumed it was referring to the span I mentioned in my previous post.

But like I said, not a big deal.

 

[L K]

I think in addition to that pick, Columbus would want a couple of players (and good ones.) i.e. Lupul + say, Gardiner. Perhaps the more likely scenario would make it Lupul + Schenn + the pick to balance out the salaries.

It can be anyone but Kessel and Gardiner.  It'll be a different team to be sure.  I can see multiple trades going down.

I'd consider moving Kessel + the pick for Nash. I dig Kessel and all but Nash is the better overall player and Kessel only has two years left on his deal. - Nash has six. It could also be a case of buying low on Nash and selling high on Kessel.  Maybe that deal needs to be massaged a bit but maybe there's something there.

I get it from a standpoint, but what does it really leave the Leafs with?  Nash has been in the NHL for 9 years and has missed the playoffs 8 times.  He has shown that he isn't able to carry a crappy team to the playoffs.  That's the knock being thrown on Kessel, that he's a complementary player who doesn't make the team better. 

Nash is an upgrade on Kessel from a physical standpoint, but Phil is about to pass Rick Nash's career high in scoring (assuming he can get 4 points in the next 7 games).  I think what we have really seen this year with the Leafs is that for the second year, the team has been too much of a 1-line team.  I just don't see how Nash, who's more of a slow down the game, able to grind in the corners and create goals in traffic kind of scorer is going to mesh with a guy like Bozak who is a better transition passer than a guy who excels at extended zone play, and make no mistake, the Leafs aren't getting a #1 center PLUS Nash.

 

[Kin]

Well, if we're talking about the actual span I referred to, then so have the Leafs.  But that's not really fair to Columbus their first bunch of years.

But either way, if Columbus over takes the Leafs it wouldn't be "finally" it would be again. They've had two years of more points than the Leafs post lockout and a bunch of years of being right there.

But post-lockout, after that many high draft picks, I'd expect their team to be better than a Leafs team that spun its wheels for years post-lockout and only had a couple high picks in that time.

But isn't that negated somewhat by the fact that the Leafs have been a team that spent to the cap every year while Columbus has often been well, well below.

And, I mean, let's be fair. Doug McLean is their JFJ. I don't think it's any fairer to  say they should have gotten something from all those picks than it'd be to say that the Leafs should have gotten something from trading McCabe/Sundin/Tucker and the like. 

 

[Zee]

What is the all time record for most consecutive times out of the playoffs?  With 7 years now, the Leafs have to be approaching the all time record for ANY team I would imagine.  Columbus went 7 straight seasons right out of expansion before they made it.  I was doing quick searches on a few other teams, 7 seems to be the record unless i'm missing someone.

So, if we miss next season, it could be an all-time record of futility for ANY organization?  Unreal.

Just found out, it's 10 -- Florida has the record.  So Leafs at 7 and counting is not far off the all-time record.

Florida - 10 years
California Golden Seals, Colorado Rockies/Devils - 9
Bos,Wash - 8 years
Leafs - 7 years (this year included)
Bunch of other teams with 7 (Det, NYI,Calgary,NYR,Columbus)
Edmonton 6 years (this year included)

 

[L K]

If they become better than the Leafs it's not going to be suddenly - it's going to be finally.

Well, no, it would be again. They have made the playoffs in that span.

Well, if we're talking about the actual span I referred to, then so have the Leafs. 

We're talking post-lockout, Columbus actually made the playoffs, only the Leafs and Florida haven't.  If Florida makes it this year, the Leafs are the only team out of 30 that hasn't.

Thanks.  3000th time I've been reminded.

You may be talking about that, but I said last 13 drafts, and then Nik referred to 'that span', so I assumed it was referring to the span I mentioned in my previous post.

But like I said, not a big deal.

I'm glad that we need to celebrate Columbus getting swept by Detroit as proof of their success over the Leafs.  They would have finished 10th in the East with their record that year.  It's making the playoffs, but that's about as weak a statement you can make about being successful.

 

[Kin]

I get it from a standpoint, but what does it really leave the Leafs with?  Nash has been in the NHL for 9 years and has missed the playoffs 8 times.  He has shown that he isn't able to carry a crappy team to the playoffs.  That's the knock being thrown on Kessel, that he's a complementary player who doesn't make the team better. 

All it shows is that Nash isn't someone who's able to singlehandedly put a team in the playoffs. A trade like that, not that I'm necessarily an advocate, would be about getting someone who'd be a better fit for the team going forward. I don't think the plan would be fielding a team with comparable talent and resources to the Blue Jackets teams that Nash has been on in the past.

As to how he fits specifically, I think he'd be more of a fit with Grabs then he would Bozak and, in theory, you could go into next year with something like this as a top 6

Nash-Grabo-Kulemin
Kadri-Bozak-Lupul

You trade Mac for whatever. Pray you can find someone to take Connolly, sign a real 3rd line and BAM! That's an 89 point team if I ever saw one.

 

[Zee]

If they become better than the Leafs it's not going to be suddenly - it's going to be finally.

Well, no, it would be again. They have made the playoffs in that span.

Well, if we're talking about the actual span I referred to, then so have the Leafs. 

We're talking post-lockout, Columbus actually made the playoffs, only the Leafs and Florida haven't.  If Florida makes it this year, the Leafs are the only team out of 30 that hasn't.

Thanks.  3000th time I've been reminded.

You may be talking about that, but I said last 13 drafts, and then Nik referred to 'that span', so I assumed it was referring to the span I mentioned in my previous post.

But like I said, not a big deal.

I'm glad that we need to celebrate Columbus getting swept by Detroit as proof of their success over the Leafs.  They would have finished 10th in the East with their record that year.  It's making the playoffs, but that's about as weak a statement you can make about being successful.

It's great the Leafs are in that celebrated company then huh?

 

[Kin]

I'm glad that we need to celebrate Columbus getting swept by Detroit as proof of their success over the Leafs.  They would have finished 10th in the East with their record that year.  It's making the playoffs, but that's about as weak a statement you can make about being successful.

In fairness to them, though, they play in an absolute Double Deuce of a division. The 5th place team in the Central that year had 88 points. This year our Northeast leading Bruins would be in 5th in the Central.

 

[L K]

I get it from a standpoint, but what does it really leave the Leafs with?  Nash has been in the NHL for 9 years and has missed the playoffs 8 times.  He has shown that he isn't able to carry a crappy team to the playoffs.  That's the knock being thrown on Kessel, that he's a complementary player who doesn't make the team better. 

All it shows is that Nash isn't someone who's able to singlehandedly put a team in the playoffs. A trade like that, not that I'm necessarily an advocate, would be about getting someone who'd be a better fit for the team going forward. I don't think the plan would be fielding a team with comparable talent and resources to the Blue Jackets teams that Nash has been on in the past.

As to how he fits specifically, I think he'd be more of a fit with Grabs then he would Bozak and, in theory, you could go into next year with something like this as a top 6

Nash-Grabo-Kulemin
Kadri-Bozak-Lupul

You trade Mac for whatever. Pray you can find someone to take Connolly, sign a real 3rd line and BAM! That's an 89 point team if I ever saw one.

No doubt, and sarcastic wit aside, I think the truth is that the team probably still is of the 89 point variety.  We are lucky if next year Kadri can put up 30 points let alone the 50 points (two year average) that we get out of MacArthur (while likely having little value on the trade front.  He just seems like one of those guys who produces more than his value).

I do agree with the Nash-Grabovski pairing though.  I wouldn't mind seeing Kulemin get another shot with them next year either.  See if this was just a catastrophe of a year that started off on a horrific note with his mentor ad close friend dying in the KHL plane crash.  So I agree there, that Nash-Grabovski-Kulemin could be that line that just wears teams down because they all can play in the corners but (assuming Kulemin learns how to hit the net with his shots again) are a threat to score 20-35 goals each.

The Kadri-Bozak-Lupul line could be interesting.  Too I guess, one of the things I hated when Kadri played on the 3rd line with Lombardi and Connolly is that Kadri was gifting beautiful passes that Connolly would fumble.  It's actually something I have been very confused with.  Connolly had a reputation as a guy who could handle the puck very well, but he is abysmal at receiving passes under any sort of pressure.  That being said, I just don't see Kadri matching the loss of MacArthur's offense and that second line would be just as bad defensively as the Kessel-Bozak-Lupul line with less offensive production.

All of it is a moot point though unless Burke finds a way to turf about 12 million of awful salary cap to retool the bottom 6.  Steckel was a good find but they really need to add 2-3 new guys to the bottom 6 at least in the offseason.  I would really like to see them add Brandon Prust.  I certainly wouldn't mind them acquiring Travis Moen either.

 

[Zee]

Where the hell is Burke anyways?  I notice his public speaking appearances and radio shows have dried up since he hung up on that radio host a few weeks back.  I suppose we'll have to wait until his end-of-year April press conference when he tells us how angry he is about missing the playoffs again?

 

[Kin]

The Kadri-Bozak-Lupul line could be interesting.  Too I guess, one of the things I hated when Kadri played on the 3rd line with Lombardi and Connolly is that Kadri was gifting beautiful passes that Connolly would fumble.  It's actually something I have been very confused with.  Connolly had a reputation as a guy who could handle the puck very well, but he is abysmal at receiving passes under any sort of pressure.  That being said, I just don't see Kadri matching the loss of MacArthur's offense and that second line would be just as bad defensively as the Kessel-Bozak-Lupul line with less offensive production.

Yeah, but it'd also be the #2 line so they wouldn't be your go-to line in a tight situation. That mitigates the terribleness of the defense slightly and obviously the hope is that Kadri can produce at a comparable level to what you're realistically going to get from Mac(and I think his 60 point year is going to look like a pretty big aberration when everything is said and done).

Again, I'm not a passionate advocate of these specific moves but if both teams are in tough to squeak into the playoffs I think I'd like the above's versatility a little bit better.

 

[Kin]

Where the hell is Burke anyways?  I notice his public speaking appearances and radio shows have dried up since he hung up on that radio host a few weeks back.  I suppose we'll have to wait until his end-of-year April press conference when he tells us how angry he is about missing the playoffs again?

"All this talk from people about the playoffs. Well, July 1st is our playoffs"

 

[ZBBM]

Where the hell is Burke anyways?  I notice his public speaking appearances and radio shows have dried up since he hung up on that radio host a few weeks back.  I suppose we'll have to wait until his end-of-year April press conference when he tells us how angry he is about missing the playoffs again?

"All this talk from people about the playoffs. Well, July 1st is our playoffs"

Well, that's the measure of a blowhard: where is he when things go terribly wrong? 

 

[pnjunction]

The media is eviscerating Burke now and rightly so.  With no excuses or sugar-coats left for this failure of a season he has nothing to say in response. All this time under his management and the team isn't even close to respectability or the playoffs let alone  contention.

 

[McPwnage]

Where the hell is Burke anyways?  I notice his public speaking appearances and radio shows have dried up since he hung up on that radio host a few weeks back.  I suppose we'll have to wait until his end-of-year April press conference when he tells us how angry he is about missing the playoffs again?

my guess is we will hear the same speech he says every year about how it sucks when we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. 

 

[Zee]

Where the hell is Burke anyways?  I notice his public speaking appearances and radio shows have dried up since he hung up on that radio host a few weeks back.  I suppose we'll have to wait until his end-of-year April press conference when he tells us how angry he is about missing the playoffs again?

"All this talk from people about the playoffs. Well, July 1st is our playoffs"

Well, that's the measure of a blowhard: where is he when things go terribly wrong?

That's what I was thinking.  He seemed to be increasing his radio and tv interviews in and round the all-star break, pumping up the Leafs and the job he did in getting them back on track.  I recall his Strombo interview when he talked about the 4 stages and how the Leafs are now "running".  What a joke that is now.  Funny he's gone into hiding suddenly when everything has gone wrong.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Where the hell is Burke anyways?  I notice his public speaking appearances and radio shows have dried up since he hung up on that radio host a few weeks back.  I suppose we'll have to wait until his end-of-year April press conference when he tells us how angry he is about missing the playoffs again?

"All this talk from people about the playoffs. Well, July 1st is our playoffs"

Well, that's the measure of a blowhard: where is he when things go terribly wrong?

That's what I was thinking.  He seemed to be increasing his radio and tv interviews in and round the all-star break, pumping up the Leafs and the job he did in getting them back on track.  I recall his Strombo interview when he talked about the 4 stages and how the Leafs are now "running".  What a joke that is now.  Funny he's gone into hiding suddenly when everything has gone wrong.

He gave a lengthy interview to the media when Carlyle was hired, and that was very much right in the middle of everything going wrong.  He was recently involved in the GM meetings and gave interviews about what went on there.

He's never been talking in the media EVERY day.  Seems like he's been around as much as usual.

 

[Zee]

Where the hell is Burke anyways?  I notice his public speaking appearances and radio shows have dried up since he hung up on that radio host a few weeks back.  I suppose we'll have to wait until his end-of-year April press conference when he tells us how angry he is about missing the playoffs again?

"All this talk from people about the playoffs. Well, July 1st is our playoffs"

Well, that's the measure of a blowhard: where is he when things go terribly wrong?

That's what I was thinking.  He seemed to be increasing his radio and tv interviews in and round the all-star break, pumping up the Leafs and the job he did in getting them back on track.  I recall his Strombo interview when he talked about the 4 stages and how the Leafs are now "running".  What a joke that is now.  Funny he's gone into hiding suddenly when everything has gone wrong.

He gave a lengthy interview to the media when Carlyle was hired, and that was very much right in the middle of everything going wrong.  He was recently involved in the GM meetings and gave interviews about what went on there.

He's never been talking in the media EVERY day.  Seems like he's been around as much as usual.

He had to be at the Carlyle hiring, that's a given.  The GM meetings there was a Damian Cox article about talking to Burke, but nothing from Burke directly.  What I'm referring to are his personal appearances and interviews on radio and tv that he was increasing when the Leafs were playing well.  Fielding direct questions from reporters about his strategy etc.  Now he's had no more direct interviews and even cancelled an appearance on the Bob McCown show.  He would have never cancelled if the Leafs were still in the playoff mix.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't see it.  The Strombo thing was almost a full 2 months ago.  He talked about all sorts of things, and he's done that all year (ex. role of enforcers).

And I'm sure he's like anyone else, you're in a better mood to talk to someone when things are going well.

I just don't buy the whole - Burke talks too much it's embarrassing!  Why isn't he talking anymore? It's embarrassing.