The Official 2011/2012 Armchair GM thread

[rdowdall]

The Leafs traded for "The Rocket"?  That dude's old.  No way he helps get in to the playoffs.

 

[Champ Kind]

I'm not sure trading Lupul would signal a rebuild.  I would see it more as a reallocation of assets.  Right now, I see Lupul as a Hossa-type (Maria, not Marcel) player.  An excellent complimentary piece but not part of the core.  So if Lupul is turned into, say, Cody Hodgson or Brayden Schenn (no basis for these names, just top of the head stuff) then I'm all for it.

 

[maplesyrup]

I spent a couple minutes trying to find where we were discussing the possibility of moving Liles at the deadline. - Can't seem to find it. Anyhoo.... I made it clear that my preference is to re-sign him but on the other hand, I do understand the value he's likely to have at the deadline. I was just thinking right now, does a defence inclusive of Phaneuf, Gardiner, and Franson have enough offensive jam going forward into next year? If the answer is "yes", then perhaps it makes the notion dealing Liles more attractive. If it's "no", then perhaps we need to start talking extension here. Anyway, I'm interested in some folks view on this. 

 

[nutman]

I think we need to kep Liles, he brings our defence up a notch or two. I believe the leafs are getting close to being a top team,as in our guys are starting to grow as a group. all Burke needs is that power centre, and as for the defence I think Liles is one of our best and you just dont deal your top four unless you have the talent sitting there. we do but I think if i am dealing a d, it would be Schenn. I may be off in your opinion on this but Liles is top two on our defence, somthing you keep.

 

[Champ Kind]

I spent a couple minutes trying to find where we were discussing the possibility of moving Liles at the deadline. - Can't seem to find it. Anyhoo.... I made it clear that my preference is to re-sign him but on the other hand, I do understand the value he's likely to have at the deadline. I was just thinking right now, does a defence inclusive of Phaneuf, Gardiner, and Franson have enough offensive jam going forward into next year? If the answer is "yes", then perhaps it makes the notion dealing Liles more attractive. If it's "no", then perhaps we need to start talking extension here. Anyway, I'm interested in some folks view on this.

My vote would be to keep Liles.  He plays a complete game, provides a veteran presence, and appears to have some leadership skills.  At 30-31 years oif age, he's still got miles ahead of him and would likely come in at a reasonable cap hit.  I have nothing to base this on, but wouldn't something like 3 years at $4.5 per seem to be in the ballpark? 

More importantly, my question is whether he's looking to test the UFA waters or whether he's amenable to resigning in TO?

 

[Zee]

I spent a couple minutes trying to find where we were discussing the possibility of moving Liles at the deadline. - Can't seem to find it. Anyhoo.... I made it clear that my preference is to re-sign him but on the other hand, I do understand the value he's likely to have at the deadline. I was just thinking right now, does a defence inclusive of Phaneuf, Gardiner, and Franson have enough offensive jam going forward into next year? If the answer is "yes", then perhaps it makes the notion dealing Liles more attractive. If it's "no", then perhaps we need to start talking extension here. Anyway, I'm interested in some folks view on this.

My vote would be to keep Liles.  He plays a complete game, provides a veteran presence, and appears to have some leadership skills.  At 30-31 years oif age, he's still got miles ahead of him and would likely come in at a reasonable cap hit.  I have nothing to base this on, but wouldn't something like 3 years at $4.5 per seem to be in the ballpark? 

More importantly, my question is whether he's looking to test the UFA waters or whether he's amenable to resigning in TO?

I would say keep Liles if possible, but in the case that we keep him, they need to get rid of Komisarek's salary.

 

[nutman]

I spent a couple minutes trying to find where we were discussing the possibility of moving Liles at the deadline. - Can't seem to find it. Anyhoo.... I made it clear that my preference is to re-sign him but on the other hand, I do understand the value he's likely to have at the deadline. I was just thinking right now, does a defence inclusive of Phaneuf, Gardiner, and Franson have enough offensive jam going forward into next year? If the answer is "yes", then perhaps it makes the notion dealing Liles more attractive. If it's "no", then perhaps we need to start talking extension here. Anyway, I'm interested in some folks view on this.

My vote would be to keep Liles.  He plays a complete game, provides a veteran presence, and appears to have some leadership skills.  At 30-31 years oif age, he's still got miles ahead of him and would likely come in at a reasonable cap hit.  I have nothing to base this on, but wouldn't something like 3 years at $4.5 per seem to be in the ballpark? 

More importantly, my question is whether he's looking to test the UFA waters or whether he's amenable to resigning in TO?

I would say keep Liles if possible, but in the case that we keep him, they need to get rid of Komisarek's salary.

I can see him going, soon.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

With Liles, I think it comes down to how ready Gardiner is to take his place and at this point, Gardiner is nowhere near ready to do that IMO.

This is not a question of depth, it's a question of development and or talent. If you remove Liles from this team, as we've seen over the past little bit, you notice the hole it creates. I've seen more posts than I can count about how we miss Liles.

Now maybe it will come down to how much that would cost us, which is probably an important question right now, because we do have players that need to be re-upped, specifically Grabovski, so maybe the first question should be what we're going to do with him?

I like Grabo and I know a lot of others do as well. Burkes is going to have to make some very difficult decisions in the next couple weeks, but it's starting to look to me that he needs to send a few contracts out the door, for one coming back and try to save a bit of cap space for next year. I haven't done the specific number crunching, but we have too many bodies going forward, with kids looking ready to come up and some bigger holes to fill also.

I'd try to keep Liles and move out some forwards and a defensman for a better forward coming back that fills a need.

 

[Champ Kind]

With Liles, I think it comes down to how ready Gardiner is to take his place and at this point, Gardiner is nowhere near ready to do that IMO.

This is not a question of depth, it's a question of development and or talent. If you remove Liles from this team, as we've seen over the past little bit, you notice the hole it creates. I've seen more posts than I can count about how we miss Liles.

Now maybe it will come down to how much that would cost us, which is probably an important question right now, because we do have players that need to be re-upped, specifically Grabovski, so maybe the first question should be what we're going to do with him?

I like Grabo and I know a lot of others do as well. Burkes is going to have to make some very difficult decisions in the next couple weeks, but it's starting to look to me that he needs to send a few contracts out the door, for one coming back and try to save a bit of cap space for next year. I haven't done the specific number crunching, but we have too many bodies going forward, with kids looking ready to come up and some bigger holes to fill also.

I'd try to keep Liles and move out some forwards and a defensman for a better forward coming back that fills a need.

Agree with you here.  However, I'm not sure Burke can send bodies out and directly receive players back.  To me, the Leafs have adequate resources, but they need to reallocated.  For instance, Grabovski + should be dealt and a 1A comes back.  However, Grabovski directly wouldn't net the player the Leafs covet (who would likely be coming froma  rebuilding team, ala Ducks, CBJ, Huricanes, etc).  However, if Grabo nets a late first round pick from the Rangers, perhaps the Leafs own mid-first round is in play for the right deal.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

However, I'm not sure Burke can send bodies out and directly receive players back.  To me, the Leafs have adequate resources, but they need to reallocated.  For instance, Grabovski + should be dealt and a 1A comes back.  However, Grabovski directly wouldn't net the player the Leafs covet (who would likely be coming froma  rebuilding team, ala Ducks, CBJ, Huricanes, etc).  However, if Grabo nets a late first round pick from the Rangers, perhaps the Leafs own mid-first round is in play for the right deal.

Basically, that's what I'm saying, that the Leafs need to reallocate the abundance of assets into a better one(s). The only reason Grabovski's name comes up is because of his UFA status and that it is probably going to cost us to keep him.

By some accounts, we have Blacker, Holzer, Aulie, Frattin, Kadri and Colborne ready or near ready to play in the NHL. We can't keep everybody, as much as I'd like to. So, at some point, Burke has to make one of those deals, if not to simply improve the team, but also to make the numbers , both financially and how many spots are available on the big club work.

It's clear we need a top line center and while they're not readily available, we have the assets to parlay into a better player, while making room for others that are moving up and challenging for a spot.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

With Liles, I think it comes down to how ready Gardiner is to take his place and at this point, Gardiner is nowhere near ready to do that IMO.

This is not a question of depth, it's a question of development and or talent. If you remove Liles from this team, as we've seen over the past little bit, you notice the hole it creates. I've seen more posts than I can count about how we miss Liles.

Now maybe it will come down to how much that would cost us, which is probably an important question right now, because we do have players that need to be re-upped, specifically Grabovski, so maybe the first question should be what we're going to do with him?

I like Grabo and I know a lot of others do as well. Burkes is going to have to make some very difficult decisions in the next couple weeks, but it's starting to look to me that he needs to send a few contracts out the door, for one coming back and try to save a bit of cap space for next year. I haven't done the specific number crunching, but we have too many bodies going forward, with kids looking ready to come up and some bigger holes to fill also.

I'd try to keep Liles and move out some forwards and a defensman for a better forward coming back that fills a need.

Agree with you here.  However, I'm not sure Burke can send bodies out and directly receive players back.  To me, the Leafs have adequate resources, but they need to reallocated.  For instance, Grabovski + should be dealt and a 1A comes back.  However, Grabovski directly wouldn't net the player the Leafs covet (who would likely be coming froma  rebuilding team, ala Ducks, CBJ, Huricanes, etc).  However, if Grabo nets a late first round pick from the Rangers, perhaps the Leafs own mid-first round is in play for the right deal.

You would trade Grabo for a late first and then use our middle first in a deal?  What are the chances you develop a player that is better than Grabs with a late first?  He's coming into his prime and developing into a 30 goal/60+ point player.  It would think he would be much more valuable as part of a deal himself rather than selling low and burning a pick.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

I spent a couple minutes trying to find where we were discussing the possibility of moving Liles at the deadline. - Can't seem to find it. Anyhoo.... I made it clear that my preference is to re-sign him but on the other hand, I do understand the value he's likely to have at the deadline. I was just thinking right now, does a defence inclusive of Phaneuf, Gardiner, and Franson have enough offensive jam going forward into next year? If the answer is "yes", then perhaps it makes the notion dealing Liles more attractive. If it's "no", then perhaps we need to start talking extension here. Anyway, I'm interested in some folks view on this.

My vote would be to keep Liles.  He plays a complete game, provides a veteran presence, and appears to have some leadership skills.  At 30-31 years oif age, he's still got miles ahead of him and would likely come in at a reasonable cap hit.  I have nothing to base this on, but wouldn't something like 3 years at $4.5 per seem to be in the ballpark? 

More importantly, my question is whether he's looking to test the UFA waters or whether he's amenable to resigning in TO?

I would say keep Liles if possible, but in the case that we keep him, they need to get rid of Komisarek's salary.

The last time a new CBA was signed there was a period of 'free' buyouts for the teams. By 'free' I mean they could buyout a player without taking any corresponding cap hit. I would be shocked if there wasn't something similar this time around if there are going to be significant reductions in the amount of money players are going to be making as all the signs suggest.

If/when this 'free' buyout period occurs I wouldn't be surprised to see 2-3 of Komisarek, Armstrong, Lombardi, and/or Connelly (if Grabovski resigns) bought out if they cant be traded.

 

[Tigger]

Well wasn't that because they brought in the cap? Not sure I see it happening again.

 

[Kin]

Well wasn't that because they brought in the cap? Not sure I see it happening again.

I agree it's less likely but if there's a significant reduction in the cap there may be a buyout period to let teams with a lot of salary on the books get under the cap.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

Well wasn't that because they brought in the cap? Not sure I see it happening again.

There talking about dropping the player's share from 57% to around 50%. That will be a significant change and the league will either have to allow some sort of grandfathering (which they didn't want to do last time) or a free buyout. Otherwise, the top teams would be taking far too big of a hit and may find themselves unable to get under the cap.

 

[Tigger]

Well wasn't that because they brought in the cap? Not sure I see it happening again.

I agree it's less likely but if there's a significant reduction in the cap there may be a buyout period to let teams with a lot of salary on the books get under the cap.

I suppose, between the possibility of significant cap reduction and as willie mentioned, maybe a different piece of the pie for the players there's a chance.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Thinking about players I'd want that at the deadline:

Moen/Ruutu/Stafford - Bring some grit/checking/scoring ability/PK work.

Visnovsky/Zidlicky - veteran help on D. Wouldn't want to pay very much for either really so maybe those are not viable options.

Ideally someone like Pacioretty/Boyle/Clarkson although I'd imagine none of them are going anywhere.

Not sure we've got enough prospects/players to get a big prize.

I'd trade Mac for picks/players.

 

[Zee]

I don't envy Burke's position here.  I know he'll make trades, cause that's what he does, I just hope it's not a case of too little too late.  The season feels like it's about to slip away.

 

[Tigger]

Thinking about players I'd want that at the deadline:

Moen/Ruutu/Stafford - Bring some grit/checking/scoring ability/PK work.

Moen and Ruutu are ufa at the end of the season, more attractive as rentals to contenders I'd think and I wouldn't want to spend almost anything on either if I could pick them up next year for no talent cost.

Never been a big Stafford fan and don't really like his cap hit/term, fwiw.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Thinking about players I'd want that at the deadline:

Moen/Ruutu/Stafford - Bring some grit/checking/scoring ability/PK work.

Moen and Ruutu are ufa at the end of the season, more attractive as rentals to contenders I'd think and I wouldn't want to spend almost anything on either if I could pick them up next year for no talent cost.

Never been a big Stafford fan and don't really like his cap hit/term, fwiw.

True. Didn't really look at contract situations but rather types of players and some teams that'll be looking to sell (Carolina, Buffalo).

Wouldn't mind Moen in the offseason.