The Official 2011/2012 Armchair GM thread

[Zee]

I struggled with where to put this.... The "depth to go shopping" thread or this one... Seem much of the same to me... Anyway;

Darren Dreger TSN video link: Blue Jackets forward Jeff Carter is 100% available, but his contract could be an issue for most teams. The Maple Leafs are not interested in Carter, nor have they talked to Columbus about him. Carter has a cap hit $5.27 million for the next 10 years. The Blue Jackets would need at least 1st round pick and a good young roster player in return. Dreger notes that a Tuomo Ruutu could be traded as early as next week. The Hurricanes think if may cost $4 ? $4.5 million on a new deal. The Oilers have said they aren?t shopping Sam Gagner but he keeps coming up in discussions.

Yeah, good luck with that Columbus.  Just because they gave away that much for Carter they honestly think another team will repay them that amount?  That contract is ridiculous.

 

[Britishbulldog]

I struggled with where to put this.... The "depth to go shopping" thread or this one... Seem much of the same to me... Anyway;

Darren Dreger TSN video link: Blue Jackets forward Jeff Carter is 100% available, but his contract could be an issue for most teams. The Maple Leafs are not interested in Carter, nor have they talked to Columbus about him.Carter has a cap hit $5.27 million for the next 10 years. The Blue Jackets would need at least 1st round pick and a good young roster player in return. Dreger notes that a Tuomo Ruutu could be traded as early as next week. The Hurricanes think if may cost $4 ? $4.5 million on a new deal. The Oilers have said they aren?t shopping Sam Gagner but he keeps coming up in discussions.

Sam Gagner??  I would prefer "the Shawn Thornton neutralizer" Ben Eager instead to play 4th line LW.

Tuomo Ruutu would be a great addition.

 

[maplesyrup]

Tuomo Ruutu would be a great addition.

I really think so too.

 

[maplesyrup]

Another reason why Columbus may (MAY) consider moving Nash is they might be getting a pretty good winger in Nail Yakupov. Now, I have no idea if he's a lock to step in right away next year but it just dawned on me as something to at least consider.

 

[bustaheims]

Another reason why Columbus may (MAY) consider moving Nash is they might be getting a pretty good winger in Nail Yakupov. Now, I have no idea if he's a lock to step in right away next year but it just dawned on me as something to at least consider.

My guess is the potential addition of Yakupov makes them less likely to trade Nash, as it means they can play Yakupov in a secondary role to start his career.

If I'm being totally honest, as much as I'd love to see Nash in Blue & White, I'm not sure trading for him right now makes a whole lot of sense for the Leafs. I've covered this in various posts in another thread, but, I suppose I can compile it here.

Nash is the face of the franchise in Columbus, which, in and of itself, increases what they'll be looking for in a trade. On top of that, Howson is fighting for his job, so any trade that will make him consider moving Nash would have to be a clear win - and I mean Gilmour to the Leafs for scraps 20 years ago type of win. The cost to acquire him is going to be more than just prohibitive, but astronomical.

In addition to that, he comes with a $7.8M cap hit, and, as much as I like him he's just not worth that much, especially when adding in the asset cost to acquire him. The Leafs don't have much in terms of cap space to play with (as thing stand right now, when Liles and Armstrong come off the IR, they'll actually be over the cap). Compare him to a guy like Bobby Ryan, from whom you'll get the same type of game and the same level of production, but with almost $3M less on the cap and, most likely, a much lower acquisition cost, and, it's really a no-brainer. To me, everything adds up to Nash going nowhere, and, especially not coming here.

 

[Kin]

Another reason why Columbus may (MAY) consider moving Nash is they might be getting a pretty good winger in Nail Yakupov. Now, I have no idea if he's a lock to step in right away next year but it just dawned on me as something to at least consider.

Regardless of how NHL ready he is I think the only way Yakupov would influence Columbus is if they had a vague sense they'd be able to draft him. Being as there's only a 50% chance they get the #1 pick even if they finish dead last they won't make any decisions based on that sort of uncertainty. Trading Nash would be an off-season thing then.

 

[maplesyrup]

Another reason why Columbus may (MAY) consider moving Nash is they might be getting a pretty good winger in Nail Yakupov. Now, I have no idea if he's a lock to step in right away next year but it just dawned on me as something to at least consider.

Regardless of how NHL ready he is I think the only way Yakupov would influence Columbus is if they had a vague sense they'd be able to draft him. Being as there's only a 50% chance they get the #1 pick even if they finish dead last they won't make any decisions based on that sort of uncertainty. Trading Nash would be an off-season thing then.

Well, there's Grigorenko and Forsberg too who are likely top 5 picks so their odds of getting a pretty decent winger are closer to 100% but I hear what you're saying.

 

[maplesyrup]

Another reason why Columbus may (MAY) consider moving Nash is they might be getting a pretty good winger in Nail Yakupov. Now, I have no idea if he's a lock to step in right away next year but it just dawned on me as something to at least consider.

My guess is the potential addition of Yakupov makes them less likely to trade Nash, as it means they can play Yakupov in a secondary role to start his career.

If I'm being totally honest, as much as I'd love to see Nash in Blue & White, I'm not sure trading for him right now makes a whole lot of sense for the Leafs. I've covered this in various posts in another thread, but, I suppose I can compile it here.

Nash is the face of the franchise in Columbus, which, in and of itself, increases what they'll be looking for in a trade. On top of that, Howson is fighting for his job, so any trade that will make him consider moving Nash would have to be a clear win - and I mean Gilmour to the Leafs for scraps 20 years ago type of win. The cost to acquire him is going to be more than just prohibitive, but astronomical.

In addition to that, he comes with a $7.8M cap hit, and, as much as I like him he's just not worth that much, especially when adding in the asset cost to acquire him. The Leafs don't have much in terms of cap space to play with (as thing stand right now, when Liles and Armstrong come off the IR, they'll actually be over the cap). Compare him to a guy like Bobby Ryan, from whom you'll get the same type of game and the same level of production, but with almost $3M less on the cap and, most likely, a much lower acquisition cost, and, it's really a no-brainer. To me, everything adds up to Nash going nowhere, and, especially not coming here.

Good points. Though I think your first one is questionable. I don't think they necessarily need Nash to bring another high-end prospect along in a secondary role. Couldn't another guy just as easily do that?

 

[bustaheims]

Good points. Though I think your first one is questionable. I don't think they necessarily need Nash to bring another high-end prospect along in a secondary role. Couldn't another guy just as easily do that?

Well, then they'd have to acquire that other guy. Keeping Nash  not only prevents that, but, it also means there's no temptation to use Yakupov in another role.

 

[Kin]

Well, there's Grigorenko and Forsberg too who are likely top 5 picks so their odds of getting a pretty decent winger are closer to 100% but I hear what you're saying.

Grigorenko is listed as a centre most places and Forsberg plays the left side so Yakupov is the only guy who creates any duplication.

 

[maplesyrup]

Good points. Though I think your first one is questionable. I don't think they necessarily need Nash to bring another high-end prospect along in a secondary role. Couldn't another guy just as easily do that?

Well, then they'd have to acquire that other guy. Keeping Nash  not only prevents that, but, it also means there's no temptation to use Yakupov in another role.

What better guy to groom one of Yakupov or Grigorenko than Kulemin? 

 

[Tigger]

I don't mind Ruutu but is he really a guy who's worth 4-5 mil a year for Toronto? I don't know.

Morrow seems a bit old for the Leafs set up frankly, I like him but he's probably better suited to a contender.

 

[maplesyrup]

Well, there's Grigorenko and Forsberg too who are likely top 5 picks so their odds of getting a pretty decent winger are closer to 100% but I hear what you're saying.

Grigorenko is listed as a centre most places and Forsberg plays the left side so Yakupov is the only guy who creates any duplication.

Really? I thought Grigorenko was playing wing (I could be wrong.) Anyway, I'm not to hung up over what side they'd be on... Nash has played on both sides and to be honest, I'm not sure his eventual replacement's position needs to be carved in stone. - I think people get to hung up on LW vs RW.... By in large, they're interchangeable... though I recognize that isn't always the case.   

 

[Kin]

Really? I thought Grigorenko was playing wing (I could be wrong.) Anyway, I'm not to hung up over what side they'd be on... Nash has played on both sides and to be honest, I'm not sure his eventual replacement's position needs to be carved in stone. - I think people get to hung up on LW vs RW.... By in large, they're interchangeable... though I recognize that isn't always the case. 

But then I'm a little hazy on your point. I thought you were saying that Columbus might be more inclined to trade Nash if they were going to draft someone who created a bit of duplication. Considering how talent poor they are all over though I don't think they'd be more inclined to trade their #1 right wing because they could maybe draft a good left winger.

 

[maplesyrup]

Really? I thought Grigorenko was playing wing (I could be wrong.) Anyway, I'm not to hung up over what side they'd be on... Nash has played on both sides and to be honest, I'm not sure his eventual replacement's position needs to be carved in stone. - I think people get to hung up on LW vs RW.... By in large, they're interchangeable... though I recognize that isn't always the case. 

But then I'm a little hazy on your point. I thought you were saying that Columbus might be more inclined to trade Nash if they were going to draft someone who created a bit of duplication. Considering how talent poor they are all over though I don't think they'd be more inclined to trade their #1 right wing because they could maybe draft a good left winger.

But again, you're getting too hung up on LW vs RW... Nash is also their #1 left winger... My point is they'd be replacing their franchise winger with hopefully what is another one. I'm only speculating but if I woke up tomorrow and Nash was a Leaf, he's be playing on Kessel's opposite side.   

 

[Kin]

But again, you're getting too hung up on LW vs RW... Nash is also their #1 left winger... My point is they'd be replacing their franchise winger with hopefully what is another one.

I'm not hung up on issues of Left vs. Right side but mainly because I don't think there's a lot of substance here anyway. Even if Yakupov was a carbon copy of Nash as a player I don't think Columbus would be inclined to deal Nash because, as you say, worst case scenario is that one guy switches sides or they play on different lines.

Trading Nash would indicate a full scale tear-down and rebuild. In that case I don't think it matters a bit whether or not there's a comparable player in the draft and they'd just start it by drafting the best available player. I mean, if they're rebuilding the team why would they be more inclined to start with a winger vs. a centre?

 

[Tigger]

Really? I thought Grigorenko was playing wing (I could be wrong.) Anyway, I'm not to hung up over what side they'd be on... Nash has played on both sides and to be honest, I'm not sure his eventual replacement's position needs to be carved in stone. - I think people get to hung up on LW vs RW.... By in large, they're interchangeable... though I recognize that isn't always the case. 

But then I'm a little hazy on your point. I thought you were saying that Columbus might be more inclined to trade Nash if they were going to draft someone who created a bit of duplication. Considering how talent poor they are all over though I don't think they'd be more inclined to trade their #1 right wing because they could maybe draft a good left winger.

But again, you're getting too hung up on LW vs RW... Nash is also their #1 left winger... My point is they'd be replacing their franchise winger with hopefully what is another one. I'm only speculating but if I woke up tomorrow and Nash was a Leaf, he's be playing on Kessel's opposite side. 

Depending on the mix left over after a trade like that I still think you keep him separated from Kessel, try and find a fit with another good forward and have two dynamic scoring lines, hopefully.

Have to ask though, if you're in Columbus' shoes, why the heck do you trade him?

 

[maplesyrup]

I mean, if they're rebuilding the team why would they be more inclined to start with a winger vs. a centre?

Well, that are locked into a #1 centre for 10 more years.

 

[maplesyrup]

Have to ask though, if you're in Columbus' shoes, why the heck do you trade him?

Well, to bustas point, I guess you do it if you feel it's a huge win for you.

 

[Tigger]

Have to ask though, if you're in Columbus' shoes, why the heck do you trade him?

Well, to bustas point, I guess you do it if you feel it's a huge win for you.

So, probably prohibitive for Toronto then?