The Official Complaint Thread!

[Arn]

I worked on a project here in Belfast putting in a load of electric car charge points across Northern Ireland. We put about 100 in around the country.

In the first year about half of them had never been used. The one that had seen the most use was outside the Department of Environment building (cos they owned and used an electric vehicle). And the biggest source of income from the charge points was in parking fines for people parking their gasoline cars in the electric charging bays.

But you have to have the infrastructure in place to encourage people to buy the things rather than realise "oh 3 million people have electric cars. We should probably start installing charge points".

Yeah, that's interesting. I guess the issue here is that the drive for me from Toronto to my Cottage is roughly 100km further than the drive from Enniskillen to Bangor or Newry to Derry or whatever else might be a drive across most of Northern Ireland. So with all that space to cover you might hope this promotes the viability of the electric car for longer trips in a way you might not need to in a smaller country.

Fair point - the company I work for now developed the first ever electric vehicle journey planning tool. It's very clever and tells you how to get between two points and where the charge points are and how long to charge at each etc

http://egomap.eu/

If you want to have a play about with it. You can chose Belfast - Dublin and it gives you routes, for example.

 

[Arn]

OK so I hadn't read the tangent the conversation had gone off in, but yeah, I'm with the majority here. You can't/shouldn't say that.

 

[TBLeafer]

I certainly won't be doing so in the future.  But the term appears WIDELY accepted in all the years leading up to WWII, where it was, yes a mere abbreviation.  As as to me taking a stand on it today:

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/90382/is-jap-still-considered-an-ethnic-slur

My parents are Japanese, I was born in Japan, and I'm a Japanese-English translator living in Canada.

Of the people I know, second and third-generation Japanese-Canadians seem to take the most offense. Part of it may be due to the lingering anger of having been cast aside (and in many cases shunned and mistreated) by the rest of Canada during World War II.

Meanwhile, even among the well-read, the Japanese living in Japan seem to have no trouble using the word "jap" both in communication amongst themselves and in communication with English-speakers. After all, the Japanese often find it stylish and convenient both to write in English and to abbreviate liberally. If someone in Japan does take offense to it, it's often only because they'd been instructed to.

So, to (kind of) answer your question, considering many of us don't care as much anymore, I think the offensive use of the term "jap" is probably on its way out, being replaced by -- or returned to -- its benign use as a natural and linguistically sound abbreviation. Personally, I welcome this, and wish it to happen sooner rather than later. In fact, I use the nickname japinthebox frequently online, and no one seems upset by it -- at least, not enough to say so.

"Jap" was probably already in use before the war without any racial overtones. I only find it offensive when it's said to emphasize a remark that already suggests racism, and I argue that people who see nothing wrong with the word nonetheless become upset simply because they recognize that some other people still do. It's a strange self-perpetuating sentiment.

"Jap" differs from "nip" in that the latter isn't even English, and so one must have gone out of their way to use it with vile, whereas "Jap" is an abbreviation of "Japanese" with legitimate usage outside of the war and probably even before it. We say "the Afghans" quite casually now, and it's used just as casually in the war in Afghanistan, but just because of the way the war is going there, there may come a time when people insist that we stop using the word "Afghans" and say "Afghanis" instead -- which given our current perspective, we know would be just a little bit absurd.

I think I spoke to that bolded point. The final sentence in that bolded sentence hammers home mine.

 

[Kin]

Fair point - the company I work for now developed the first ever electric vehicle journey planning tool. It's very clever and tells you how to get between two points and where the charge points are and how long to charge at each etc

http://egomap.eu/

If you want to have a play about with it. You can chose Belfast - Dublin and it gives you routes, for example.

That is cool, thanks. I'd really like to get back over there soon and definitely to get further North than I did last time. I guess I might have to hurry up if I want to do so with a soft border.

 

[Kin]

"Yeah, but it was acceptable in the 30's" is probably a bad argument when it comes to ethnic slurs.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Those of us who have been here long enough remember Sakura/m-gro, who so tragically died 11 years ago yesterday.  She was truly the nicest, most tolerant, most open-minded person you could ever imagine to meet.  She was of Japanese descent.  I remember her being completely livid (privately with me, not publicly on the board) at the use of the term "Jap" by another poster.  I should add that, that same poster, when I told him privately about, initially felt that he had done no wrong, but the more he looked into the history of the term, the more apologetic he became.

It is a racist term.

 

[Kin]

What I don't get is how people get offended on behalf of people, when it doesn't actually affect them personally one iota.

Except it does. This place is a community and, as such, it has community standards. Many of us here are members of a minority, whether it's ethnic or racial or sexual. We want everyone to feel welcome here provided they're not a jerk and, as someone who is a member of an ethnic minority, I know that if I went somewhere that a word I considered a slur against my people was used and accepted I wouldn't feel particularly welcome regardless of the intent of the people using it.

So I'm not "getting offended" for someone else. Racist language offends me all on its own because I know the effect it has on people and what it says about a community that allows it. A lot of us here have a lot of time invested in this place and want it to remain the great place it is. When person after person who has been here for a lot longer than you have tells you plainly that what you're doing violates the community standards of just plain decency that have been established you would, if you had even the slightest shred of self-reflection or humility, probably think to listen to them rather than constantly doubling down on this complete and total stupidity.

And nobody, not once, asked me what I actually thought of Japan and Japanese people.

That is probably because you are not doing a very good job of making people want to talk to you because you have consistently established that you refuse to listen to any perspective other than your own and almost never address what is being said to you.

I'm sure you'll just dismiss this, argue again that what you did is fine or whatever but if you want to be a part of this board that people want around then, for your own sake, read the friggin' room.

 

[L K]

I just refuse to walk around on eggshells and I'm the least racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic you'll actually ever meet.

Good then, I think we can safely confirm that you are a fucking idiot.  I can say that because I'm the least judgemental person you'll every actually meet.

 

[AvroArrow]

This is a perfect example of why I hate people.  TBLeafer, you can go Frig yourself.  I'll happily take a ban to say that to a piece of garbage like you.

Edit: damn auto censor...

 

[herman]

Chill, dude. It's just ignorance, not malice. No need to cross lines yourself.

 

[TML fan]

Chill, dude. It's just ignorance, not malice. No need to cross lines yourself.

The voice of reason.

 

[bustaheims]

What I don't get is how people get offended on behalf of people, when it doesn't actually affect them personally one iota.

It's called living in a civilized society. When people use a term that's considered to be offensive by the group it refers to, they deserve to be called out on it, not asked for clarification of why they used the offensive term. The why, quite frankly, doesn't matter. The term you used was offensive, regardless of why you used it or what your intention was. The right thing for you to do would have been to apologize for your mistake and move on.

Whether or not anyone here is of Japanese descent is also irrelevant. As Nik said, we have certain standards in this community, and one of those standards is that we don't use ethnic slurs, even if there's no one in the community from that background. History has shown the consequences of not standing up for groups other than your own, and I, for one, am proud to be part of a community that won't allow itself to risk sliding down that slippery slope. If you can't abide by this pretty basic standard of human decency, there are plenty of other message boards for you to frequent.

 

[hockeyfan1]

If the government of this province (Ontario) truly wanted to reduce vehicle, carbon emissions, it woukd need to offer incentives to those who's situation does not make it feasibe to purchase a new vehicle while ditching their older version.

i am not in that category, but, for those who are, there should be some sort of enticement/incentive/etc., to better facilitate the transition. 

Have you paid any attention to this conversation at all?

Very much.  Too much maybe.  :)

 

[hockeyfan1]

This is a perfect example of why I hate people.  TBLeafer, you can go Frig yourself.  I'll happily take a ban to say that to a piece of garbage like you.

Edit: damn auto censor...

You'd be surprised at the words I've heard describing people of different descent and nationality.  Not to imply that every second  person be deemed a racist, but I've heard names that would make one cringe.

The Italians were once referred to as "wops", which is considered 'annoying' by today's generation of Italians.  The older generation didn't pay much attention to it, shrugging it off as one of those things.  No one makes much fuss if it is said, but it is not something pleasing to hear either.

I have never, and will never utter or use an ethnic slur against any person regardless of race, religion, creed.  Respect is where it's at.

Treat others as you would like them to treat you.  Respect given = respect earned. 

 

[TBLeafer]

"Yeah, but it was acceptable in the 30's" is probably a bad argument when it comes to ethnic slurs.

I'm going to break the wheel. 

Last time I checked they haven't been an oppressed people for more than half a century.  In the modern era, there is no attachment to that term continuing to be used as such.

I choose to think we are better than that now as a people and happen to agree with the Australians and the Canadian-Japanese translator who has far more direct interaction with those Japanese than any of us.

It is no longer Slaver's Bay and a mere abbreviation can (once again) be used as such without fear of fallout.  That time is long past. The only racism in the term "Jap" TODAY is as an abbreviated identifier of a Japanese people. Its time that the views of the elders become outdated.  But we need to respect our elders.  Out of respect for those elders, when they are present and based on THEIR memory of that time, we should refrain from using that term, because it would be arrogant to do so.

Who on this forum was alive during WWII?  For their sake I apologise.

 

[Kin]

Read. The. Room.

 

[TBLeafer]

The room.  Where its been 2 years since your last regular poster (herman) joined.

Ever wonder why?  I see a bunch in 2015, but nobody who decided to stick around.  Ever wonder why?

Perhaps maybe the overall air of NEGATIVITY you guys create and seem to feed of?

That's the room I read, currently.

How is combating a perceived insult (even if none was intended), by being insulting not hypocrisy?   

 

[Tigger]

It's like the garlic poster again but with racism instead.

Did you not just hear from some of the long term posters that have had interactions with people of Japanese descent, either on this very board or in their personal or professional life that the term is racist?

Racist.

I think you've been coddled enough here.

 

[TBLeafer]

WWII is calling you.

For the record I abhor the use of the "N" word.  It is and should be verboten for whites to use.  As should fag by anyone other than a Brit to describe a cigarette.  As should Chink, because it is STILL used in a derogatory manner. 

Call me a racist all you want.  You'd be wrong.  I got by just fine and have many multicultural friends from growing up in Brampton, going to school in multicultural NYC, living for years in multicultural Toronto, etc.

You guys want to hold onto an archaic ideal, be my guest and as I said, I apologise to those that still view it as such and for their benefit, won't use that term here again.

 

[Bender]

The room.  Where its been 2 years since your last regular poster (herman) joined.

Ever wonder why?  I see a bunch in 2015, but nobody who decided to stick around.  Ever wonder why?

Perhaps maybe the overall air of NEGATIVITY you guys create and seem to feed of?

That's the room I read, currently.

How is combating a perceived insult (even if none was intended), by being insulting not hypocrisy? 

So the answer to your idiocy is to taunt the board? To be quite frank with you I'm ok with a new frequent poster every couple of years who posts with the quality that Herman does over a new frequent poster every day who posts self centred, ignorant and inflammatory remarks that, in all honesty, only worsen this community, not better it. I've been here for over 10 years,  and many have been here 20. If you don't like this community feel free to find another one that more closely resembles posters like you, because it's clear that the only opinions you care about are your own.