The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread

[Corn Flake]

Can they not seriously figure out the PK after 3 seasons? It is truly ridiculous. The last few years they have had at least two lines of "penalty killers and roll players" and still made zero progress. With the ca-billion people they have on staff can they not hire a PK coach? If this truly is on Wilson he should be fired. It's broke, it doesn't work, it's not going to work (still 30th), FIRE HIM and fix it.

Goaltending. Has to start there.  Without Reimer it hasn't been there.  PK wasn't stellar with Reimer there but it was improved. 

Wilson says its a confidence issue, and without a goalie you fully know will do his job, how can you be confident on the PK?

 

[bustaheims]

Goaltending. Has to start there.  Without Reimer it hasn't been there.  PK wasn't stellar with Reimer there but it was improved. 

Wilson says its a confidence issue, and without a goalie you fully know will do his job, how can you be confident on the PK?

Honestly. Do people really believe there's no link between the fact that Leafs, in Wilson tenure, have had the statistically worst goaltending in the league and the fact that the PK has not been successful? Improve the goaltending and the PK numbers will start to climb. It's really that simple. It may not climb to elite levels, but, it should certainly reach respectability.

 

[ZBBM]

Looks like even staunch Wilson defenders are running out of excuses for the abysmal D.  There's really nothing left to try other than a coaching change.

A losing streak that brings us back down to .500 might increase the pressure on Burke enough so it has to be done.

OTOH, to Wilson's credit, the PP has at least gotten itself out of the basement.  I will give him that, although I still think he allows it to be far too predictable.

 

[Zee]

The schedule over the next 10 games scares the hell out of me too.  7 out of 10 on the road, including a back to back with Boston to end this month.  If anyone can make a case for the Leafs record looking good early on due to an easy schedule, it's about to get a whole lot harder real fast.

I am SO not looking forward to those Boston games.  :-\

 

[Arn]

I am SO not looking forward to those Boston games.  :-\

On a law of averages, we have to compete in one of them eventually...

As far as a coaching change, I kind of feel Wilson's time is up, but really any change needs to happen sooner I think so we can perhaps lessen the chances of the annual extended slump (TM)

 

[Bender]

I am SO not looking forward to those Boston games.  :-\

On a law of averages, we have to compete in one of them eventually...

As far as a coaching change, I kind of feel Wilson's time is up, but really any change needs to happen sooner I think so we can perhaps lessen the chances of the annual extended slump (TM)

Or we could nosedive. Changing the coach isn't a cure all. How did Cory Clouston do in the long-term?

 

[ZBBM]

I am SO not looking forward to those Boston games.  :-\

On a law of averages, we have to compete in one of them eventually...

As far as a coaching change, I kind of feel Wilson's time is up, but really any change needs to happen sooner I think so we can perhaps lessen the chances of the annual extended slump (TM)

Or we could nosedive. Changing the coach isn't a cure all. How did Cory Clouston do in the long-term?

And the worst that could happen is ... we'd miss the playoffs?  Which is exactly what the incumbent has managed to accomplish in his several whacks at the pi?ata.

There is no downside, except to Wilson himself.

 

[Arn]

Exactly - all signs point to us heading towards a nosedive as is. A change might not prevent a nosedive, but equally keeping the status quo is less likely to.

I mean, if we keep doing the same things wrong over and over and over again, despite the roster being turned over a couple of times, I dunno.

 

[Number 5]

I mean, if we keep doing the same things wrong over and over and over again, despite the roster being turned over a couple of times, I dunno.

If you turn the roster over enough times, you end up with the 1931-32 Leafs.

 

[Arn]

Red Horner could probably still do a better job than Komisarek ;-)

 

[WAYNEINIONA]

I know I've said this before but I'd still like to see Dale Hunter behind the bench.

 

[Tigger]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the style the Leafs are trying to play is difficult to master but it's a style that is quite effective with the right group of players in todays NHL. Personally I want nothing to do with watching the paint dry a la Nashville or Phoenix while being a pretender. The players need time to develop and I think they're heading in the right direction. Burke has made quite a few key moves that have helped and I think he has more up his sleeve but the Vatican wasn't rebuilt re-tooled in a day, no matter how much one may wish for it.

Firing Wilson at this point will be about success and should the Leafs truly go off a cliff and lose contact with the playoff race, well, so be it but I honestly don't think it's a true reflection of the situation right now. Get him a starter before dropping the axe.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Red Horner could probably still do a better job than Komisarek ;-)

Not the be all end all, but he's one of only 3 Leafs that are a plus in November (Kessel, Lupul).

 

[L K]

Red Horner could probably still do a better job than Komisarek ;-)

Not the be all end all, but he's one of only 3 Leafs that are a plus in November (Kessel, Lupul).

Not that I don't disagree, he's been much better than last year, but I think he has been a big reason why the PK has been so bad.  He wanders a lot.  He'll play strong for a PK or two and then he loses focus, drifts away from the net and leaves a guy open to slam home a pass/rebound.  Not that +/- should include PK stats, but when Komisarek is there to play defense, I think that's a big part of his responsibility.

 

[Redleaf]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the style the Leafs are trying to play is difficult to master but it's a style that is quite effective with the right group of players in todays NHL. Personally I want nothing to do with watching the paint dry a la Nashville or Phoenix while being a pretender. The players need time to develop and I think they're heading in the right direction. Burke has made quite a few key moves that have helped and I think he has more up his sleeve but the Vatican wasn't rebuilt re-tooled in a day, no matter how much one may wish for it.

Firing Wilson at this point will be about success and should the Leafs truly go off a cliff and lose contact with the playoff race, well, so be it but I honestly don't think it's a true reflection of the situation right now. Get him a starter before dropping the axe.

They might get better at their defensive play, but what we've seen since they started working on that, is a lot less offense. So I don't know what style you are referring to, but I certainly hope you're right.

 

[L K]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the style the Leafs are trying to play is difficult to master but it's a style that is quite effective with the right group of players in todays NHL. Personally I want nothing to do with watching the paint dry a la Nashville or Phoenix while being a pretender. The players need time to develop and I think they're heading in the right direction. Burke has made quite a few key moves that have helped and I think he has more up his sleeve but the Vatican wasn't rebuilt re-tooled in a day, no matter how much one may wish for it.

Firing Wilson at this point will be about success and should the Leafs truly go off a cliff and lose contact with the playoff race, well, so be it but I honestly don't think it's a true reflection of the situation right now. Get him a starter before dropping the axe.

How many years do you go searching for the players to fit a coach.  This is year 4 of the team "not getting" Wilson's system.  Maybe he's just one-too-many years removed from being a relevant NHL coach.  For all the talk about Ipads, it's a flipping computer.  How is that innovative?  Tablet PCs have been around for ages, as has WIFI.  I doubt that there are very many teams that don't have a guy watching video during the game and feeding info down to the coaching staff. 

And it isn't like we are talking about a coach who has a Cup ring to his name to point to his ultimate playoff success.  Wilson's teams win regular season games, not playoff ones.  He's a sub-500. coach in the postseason.

 

[Tigger]

They might get better at their defensive play, but what we've seen since they started working on that, is a lot less offense. So I don't know what style you are referring to, but I certainly hope you're right.

I've read it referred to in different ways, hybrid puck pressure/possession comes to mind. When done correctly it can create a lot of offense and I think that's what we saw early on, especially against weaker teams and with Toronto's considerable speed working for them but it's high risk/high reward though.

With Reimer unavailable they've hit a bump in the road, along with other teams figuring out how to defend them so the next trick is for them to learn a little d while trying to maintain that approach with some variation. It's not easy to do and with the Leafs defence corps a little porous ( little help from the forwards at times too ) young and geared more to passing and skating it's a tough go for them but a little pain now could really help down the road.

I think we'll see more ups and downs in the results for a while but if they can get through the end of this month and most of December without the wheels coming off I think they'll be fine.

 

[Bender]

I am SO not looking forward to those Boston games.  :-\

On a law of averages, we have to compete in one of them eventually...

As far as a coaching change, I kind of feel Wilson's time is up, but really any change needs to happen sooner I think so we can perhaps lessen the chances of the annual extended slump (TM)

Or we could nosedive. Changing the coach isn't a cure all. How did Cory Clouston do in the long-term?

And the worst that could happen is ... we'd miss the playoffs?  Which is exactly what the incumbent has managed to accomplish in his several whacks at the pi?ata.

There is no downside, except to Wilson himself.

Oh give me a break. Failure is failure. If you brought in a new coach that ended up failing worse than Wilson would you still say it's coaching? Have you taken a good look at the roster we've had for the last three years? Have you ignored the we've been relying on our third string goaltenders since Reimer was hurt? Its like people blaming Obama for all the ills George Bush brought.

Our goaltending isn't remotely good and the Grabbo line isn't playing up to par, I don't care what the "system" is. It's so easy to blame abstractions like that. They're getting shut down and they aren't burying their chances. Watching the game it looks less an issue of systems and more a lack of effort.

If changing the coach fixes it all, fine. But to say missing the playoffs is admissible because Wilson didn't make the playoffs over his period here doesn't jive with me at all, and I'll be laughing if our percentages don't improve any.

*Edit

Oh, and I read a stat somewhere that the Leafs have a PK close to 80% with Reimer. Without Reimer it's at 70%. But, you know, get rid of Wilson and everything will be ok.

 

[Tigger]

How many years do you go searching for the players to fit a coach.

That's the crux of the question I think. I'd prefer the Leafs choose an effective style/attack plan that didn't include the trap, period but at some point it will probably have to incorporate at least the ability to do it if necessary... however I also think the team was pretty seriously lacking talent for a few years and needed a reboot which was advertised as one thing when clearly it's another ( yes, rebuild ). I'd say it's a kind of hockey success 'a la carte', effective style supported by coaching but most importantly with the right players.

I don't put much stock in how current the staff is with technology either, fwiw and I don't particularly care if Wilson is the coach that leads them to the promised land as long as they get there but I really can't stomach the thought of Nashville/Phoenix hockey being the vehicle.

 

[Bender]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the style the Leafs are trying to play is difficult to master but it's a style that is quite effective with the right group of players in todays NHL. Personally I want nothing to do with watching the paint dry a la Nashville or Phoenix while being a pretender. The players need time to develop and I think they're heading in the right direction. Burke has made quite a few key moves that have helped and I think he has more up his sleeve but the Vatican wasn't rebuilt re-tooled in a day, no matter how much one may wish for it.

Firing Wilson at this point will be about success and should the Leafs truly go off a cliff and lose contact with the playoff race, well, so be it but I honestly don't think it's a true reflection of the situation right now. Get him a starter before dropping the axe.

How many years do you go searching for the players to fit a coach.  This is year 4 of the team "not getting" Wilson's system.  Maybe he's just one-too-many years removed from being a relevant NHL coach.  For all the talk about Ipads, it's a flipping computer.  How is that innovative?  Tablet PCs have been around for ages, as has WIFI.  I doubt that there are very many teams that don't have a guy watching video during the game and feeding info down to the coaching staff. 

And it isn't like we are talking about a coach who has a Cup ring to his name to point to his ultimate playoff success.  Wilson's teams win regular season games, not playoff ones.  He's a sub-500. coach in the postseason.

Or this is year 1 of a halfway decent team put together. No offense but the 2008-09 Leafs were laughable and the 09-10 Leafs weren't much better either in terms of personnel.

The time frame doesn't matter a whole lot depending on your perspective: If you have sub par players, you have sub par players!