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Tlusty re-ups in Carolina

Rebel_1812 said:
The coach benched him even though his numbers were about the same as the other goalie.  He wasn't exposed to be poor.
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He wasn't exactly shown to be good either, nor did he play well when he joined other organizations in the years after. Like dozens and dozens of highly touted goalie prospects, once facing a higher level of competition than he saw in junior, Pogge was shown to just not be that good. He's not the the first goalie this has happened to and he won't be the last. What happened to him was not due to any coach "ruining" him.
 
I do miss the endless debating with Erndog over him, but anyways...

@aaronward_nhl

Filed under,'gave up on him too early',Jiri Tlusty has just quietly scored his 8th and 9th goals on the season.Ranks in top 20 of NHL #TSN
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Potvin29 said:
I do miss the endless debating with Erndog over him, but anyways...

@aaronward_nhl

Filed under,'gave up on him too early',Jiri Tlusty has just quietly scored his 8th and 9th goals on the season.Ranks in top 20 of NHL #TSN
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I still hate the Tlusty/Paradis trade. I knew Tlusty had it in him to be a pretty good player in this league if he was given some time.
 
Eh. It happens. Is he that much better than Frattin? I suppose he'd slot into our top 6 somewhere but as bad of a trade as it turned out to be, it certainly doesn't sting much. - At least it doesn't for me.
 
Rob said:
Eh. It happens. Is he that much better than Frattin? I suppose he'd slot into our top 6 somewhere but as bad of a trade as it turned out to be, it certainly doesn't sting much. - At least it doesn't for me.
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But it's not bad to have more good players.
 
Rob said:
Eh. It happens. Is he that much better than Frattin? I suppose he'd slot into our top 6 somewhere but as bad of a trade as it turned out to be, it certainly doesn't sting much. - At least it doesn't for me.
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It's less about him being traded than it is who he was traded for. It smacked of impatience and poor planning/team building.
 
It was just a dumb all around trade.  Even at his worst he seemed to be lining up as a 3rd line type of center/winger who was good defensively.

How nice would it be to have Tlusty and Steen still in the organization to add to the depth.
 
bustaheims said:
It's less about him being traded than it is who he was traded for. It smacked of impatience and poor planning/team building.
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Bad trade? Yes. We gave him away - Agreed. But like I said, how are we hurting from it? It's not like he's an asset you can't replace... These things happen to 29 other teams too.
 
L K said:
It was just a dumb all around trade.  Even at his worst he seemed to be lining up as a 3rd line type of center/winger who was good defensively.

How nice would it be to have Tlusty and Steen still in the organization to add to the depth.
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Side note but I don't get the "Finally the Leafs are drafting and developing a player properly..." stuff re: Kadri. I mean, outside of maybe Schenn(and that's pretty wait and see at this point) I don't think the Leafs have rushed a 1st rounder and messed him up in, like, 15 years.
 
Rob said:
bustaheims said:
It's less about him being traded than it is who he was traded for. It smacked of impatience and poor planning/team building.
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Bad trade? Yes. We gave him away - Agreed. But like I said, how are we hurting from it? It's not like he's an asset you can't replace... These things happen to 29 other teams too.
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So should we only discuss things that don't also happen to 29 other teams? Should people say about Kadri's development "Hey man, other teams have good young players too, no biggie"?
 
Nik Gida said:
Then you've lost me.
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In my mind, the loss just isn't that significant enough to dwell on. I mean, I'm not saying folks shouldn't discuss it - feel free... that's why we're all here. Fill your boots. 
 
He's playing over his head. He's not that good. He's good enough to be a contributing player in the right environment, and Toronto was not that environment. Not losing sleep over this one.

 
TML fan said:
He's playing over his head. He's not that good. He's good enough to be a contributing player in the right environment, and Toronto was not that environment. Not losing sleep over this one.
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Aside from the "he's not one of use anymore so he's not that good" fan arguments, I really don't understand that assertion (and I'm not singling you out, I'm just speaking in general about this general sentiment that a lot of people seem to have).

He was a guy who was soft as an 18 year old playing on a team that still had some pretty good players on it and still had a few guys who were pretty physical in the top 6.  He's a mid-high 1st round pick and he's 24 going on 25.  He's developed fairly slow, but his development with the Leafs was just pathetic in the way they handled him.  Playing him 4-5 minutes a night on the 4th line was pure incompetence.
 
Rob said:
In my mind, the loss just isn't that significant enough to dwell on.
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But I don't think the discussion is being driven by a sort of collective wailing and gnashing of teeth over how terrific Jiri Tlusty is. I think it's more about the absolutely lousy reasoning that went into the trade and the sort of opinion that a lot of people put forth defending it that Tlusty was all he was ever going to be at the age of 21, in large part because of his struggles on a lousy Leafs team when he was just 19.

You could say that a crummy trade made by a guy who's not GM any more isn't worth "dwelling" on either I suppose but I think it's the persisting attitude both with fans and the people in charge that keeps it alive. I think we saw it from the team before with the Steen/Carlo trade and then again this summer with the Schenn/JVR trade. That's not to say that the returns in all of those cases are as hard to defend as Paradis was for Tlusty, just that they're all cases of talented young players who were probably not used in the best way by the Leafs and put in really lousy situations to succeed, resulting in fans jumping the gun a bit and saying that they knew exactly what those players were and could ever be at the ages of 22 or 23 or whatever. You saw a little bit of it with Kadri before the season and I think we're seeing some of it with Kulemin now.

People always talk about the "impatience" of Leafs fans and how that's why players like Schenn and Tlusty got rushed to the bigs but I think Leafs fans in general are ok with guys taking time to develop in the minors or Europe. Where the team and the fans jump the gun a bit, I think, is not realizing that some guys have to be lousy in the NHL for a bit before they emerge as solid players and that trying to kickstart that process by rushing them to the NHL at 19 doesn't really work.
 
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