bustaheims
Active member
Etiam Vultus said:
Not necessarily. There could still be one guy they like a little more than the rest that are available at 5.
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Not necessarily. There could still be one guy they like a little more than the rest that are available at 5.
bustaheims said:
And by trading down you potentially go from trying to decide between a group of equal players by looking at organization needs to letting teams in front of you decide by picking their guys.
Also, Burke's the type of GM who would rather give up a 2nd to secure the guy he wanted than pick up an extra second and risk not getting the guy he wanted. I think there's no way he trades down for that reason alone.
Screwball
Moderator
From Friedman's 30 thoughts:
10. There are rumblings that Toronto will offer Luke Schenn to Edmonton for a swap of first-rounders. No doubt Brian Burke would like to make a huge draft splash. He loves the big stage. And I do believe the Oilers like Schenn and have discussed his availability before. But I just can't see it happening for the first-overall selection. That's not enough. It'll be interesting, though, to see how many teams think Schenn will be better off outside Toronto. Sounds like the Maple Leafs are aware of that and, as a result, ask for a lot in return.
10. There are rumblings that Toronto will offer Luke Schenn to Edmonton for a swap of first-rounders. No doubt Brian Burke would like to make a huge draft splash. He loves the big stage. And I do believe the Oilers like Schenn and have discussed his availability before. But I just can't see it happening for the first-overall selection. That's not enough. It'll be interesting, though, to see how many teams think Schenn will be better off outside Toronto. Sounds like the Maple Leafs are aware of that and, as a result, ask for a lot in return.
The Maple Leaf president/GM was furious on Monday over a Hockey Night in Canada report that suggested there are ?rumblings? throughout the NHL that Burke is prepared to trade defenceman Luke Schenn to the Edmonton Oilers for the No. 1 overall pick in this month?s entry draft.
?Typical of Hockey Night,? said Burke. ?I have never discussed this trade or any trade involving Luke Schenn to Edmonton.?
http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1209721--luke-schenn-to-oilers-rumour-riles-leafs-gm
?Typical of Hockey Night,? said Burke. ?I have never discussed this trade or any trade involving Luke Schenn to Edmonton.?
http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1209721--luke-schenn-to-oilers-rumour-riles-leafs-gm
Leafaholic99
New member
He could be telling the truth, doesn't Nonis handle some trade negotiations too? Lol
Chev-boyar-sky
New member
I must be one of the few who doesn't think Schenn plus our 5th is anywhere near a good deal for Yakupov from the Leafs perspective.
From Edmonton's side it makes a lot of sense. They could pick Murray/Dumba to go along with Schenn and have an great core of Hall/Hopkins/Eberle/Pajaarvi/Schenn/Murray.
That is a wealth of talent up front and on the back end. Something sorely lacking in their lineup IMO. If they can get a better offer elsewhere, hats off to them (they probably can), but with the Leafs suspect D and a lack of top end picks in the last few years due to the Kessel deal, I'd be hesitant to move to #5's for a #1. If it were a Crosby type player then definitely but I haven't read anything that suggests Yakupov is near that calibre of player.
From Edmonton's side it makes a lot of sense. They could pick Murray/Dumba to go along with Schenn and have an great core of Hall/Hopkins/Eberle/Pajaarvi/Schenn/Murray.
That is a wealth of talent up front and on the back end. Something sorely lacking in their lineup IMO. If they can get a better offer elsewhere, hats off to them (they probably can), but with the Leafs suspect D and a lack of top end picks in the last few years due to the Kessel deal, I'd be hesitant to move to #5's for a #1. If it were a Crosby type player then definitely but I haven't read anything that suggests Yakupov is near that calibre of player.
Corn Flake
New member
Chev-boyar-sky said:
Agreed, plus it would be fairly a-typical of a draft day deal involving a flip of picks. There hasn't been a flip from #5 to #1 as far back as 1999 when there was a flip #4 to #1 and they cost merely a fraction of what is being suggested. Burke pulled the trigger on that deal in which going from 4th to 1st cost him two 3rd round picks.
So how do we go from two measly 3rd round picks to Luke Schenn because of one draft position? Maybe the wild west trading days are long gone but this draft isn't far off the caliber of that 1999 draft in terms of very little consensus on who is #1 and a team holding the #1 pick possibly itching to make a move with it.
I think at most we could see Burke land another 1st and use that to flip to 1st overall. It won't cost any more than that.
Redleaf
Active member
Chev-boyar-sky said:
Does Yakupov really need to be a Crosby calibre player though? What if he's closer to an Ovechkin type? Does giving up Schenn and a 5th do it for you then? Sometimes GMs have to take chances to get a true superstar in their line-up. This could be the only chance Burke has to get such an impact player for the Leafs. I'd do it myself.
maplesyrup
New member
Yeah, I mean Schenn is a nice player and all but he'll never be a top pairing guy. I'd do it too.
Corn Flake
New member
RedLeaf said:
Woaaaahhh there... I think we need some context as to what Yakupov is. It's most likely the difference between an all star and a franchise player. Yakupov is most likely the former, not the latter. Impact player? Yes. Guy you build your franchise around? Almost no way. He's not an Ovechkin level player. I mean, maybe he can reach that level in a few years but it's not like he will hit the ground and dominate from the get go like Ovie/Malkin/Stamkos/Crosby. This guy isn't likely even up to the level of Hall or Nugent-Hopkins.
So with that, the Oilers giving him up to walk away with the d-man they really want and some extra picks to boot isn't the worst thing that could happen to them.
Redleaf
Active member
Corn Flake said:
No one really knows the ceiling for this kid, but we do know that Burke may never get the opportunity as the Leafs GM to draft a higher pick than this again. As much as the mock drafts have been all over the place this year, one thing has remained a constant - Yakupov has been ranked #1 by almost every single scout in nearly ever single ranking Ive seen.
I just see this as an opportunity that shouldn't be passed up. How many fans on this board have been complaining that we will never get ahead if we don't start drafting superstar potential players. Thats how I see it anyway. Of course if Burke can pull it off without including Schenn in a package with the Oilers, then all the better, but if Schenn is what it takes then count me in.
dappleganger
Active member
Corn Flake said:
Stamkos didn't hit the ground running his rookie season. He struggled quite a bit early on and finished with 46 points.
Nail has very similar junior stats to Stamkos so I think a comparison could be made there.
Corn Flake
New member
RedLeaf said:
No doubt Yakupov is the consensus #1 on basically every list out there and I'm not saying the Leafs shouldn't be after him. What I am saying is this won't be like trading up to draft Crosby or Ovechkin or even Stamkos... this pick is attainable partly due to the Oilers' situation and part because there is a general feeling that Yak is not a franchise level player.... so you won't need to sell your farm to get that pick if you have one that is close.
Corn Flake
New member
dm_for_pm said:
Stamkos... ok, but I didn't literally mean just the rookie season. I believe Ovechkin had the best numbers of the guys mentioned in his rookie year but today would you take him over Stamkos or Crosby? I wouldn't. Stamkos exploded in year 2 and never looked back. My point was the runway these guys had to get fully up to their peak was incredibly short. I think with Yak it might take a few years longer.
Patrick Kane had significantly better OHL numbers than Stamkos.. would you rather have Kane or Stamkos? My point is it goes far deeper than 5 stat columns. The general feeling is Yakupov is more Kane than Stamkos. Both great players but one is a franchise guy and the other is an all star level sniper who is pretty darned good.
Redleaf
Active member
Corn Flake said:
Fair enough. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't retreat if the Oilers ask for the 5th pick and someone like Schenn to make the trade work. Even if Yakupov doesn't turn out to be a franchise type player, (and that's still up in the air), he looks to be a few levels above every other pick in this draft. If throwing in Schenn gives you that notch or two of security that you might not get picking at number 5 then it's well worth it IMO.
BTW. I'd be pretty damn happy if he turned into a player like Kane and would feel quite justified about throwing Schenn into that deal.
bustaheims
Active member
Corn Flake said:
Hall or RNH are probably better comparables than Kane. I don't think either have it in them to be real franchise guys, but, both will be very good players - but, I'm not sure either will be quite as good as Patrick Kane. Or, maybe someone like Patrick Marleau, who turned into a very productive player, but it took him 8 years in the NHL to get there.
Corn Flake
New member
bustaheims said:
My thinking on Kane is he is a complimentary guy and although extremely skilled and has produced amazing stats, he isn't a franchise player. Even without Toews he wouldn't be that guy. It comes down to character and personality and a few dimensions to his game that keep him from being a "complete" player.
I agree to a point with the Marleau comparison where it took him a number of years to get it together. I don't think it will take Yak 8 years, but maybe 3-4.
Kessel could be a good comparison. Came on the scene able to score but took until this year to round out his game to be more than just a one-trick selfish pony.
Etiam Vultus
New member
I apologize for an off topic posting, but Leaf fans can take solace that our luck is not as bad as the Blue Jackets'. In a year where there is a consensus number one choice in the draft, they lose the lottery and drop down to second. Their other first round choice, obtained from LA in the Carter deal, was expected to be 17th and will now be last because LA won the Cup.