TOP 5 PICK!!!

[ZBBM]

I actually don't have a problem with drafting Schenn in retrospect.  Nik, people had high -- very high -- expectations for him.  There was 1 scout who called him the best defensive defenseman in the draft for the last 25 years, the human eraser, etc.  If you think you might get the next Scott Stevens, you do that at #5 IMO.

The best-case scenario for us is that Carlyle gets them all into a defensive system that they can handle and Schenn-Gardiner become a long-term partnership.

So yeah, to return to the draft, I'd still go for Dumba or that other guy if they were available, or at least think very seriously about it.

 

[ZBBM]

When I read the synopsis of Grigorenko vs. the one on Galchenyuk you see a wide gap between 3 and 5. I am still struggling with what could have been......

Forget about it and move on... Please?  :-\

And, among many other things that could have happened, we might have squeaked into the playoffs and got swept the 1st round.  The value of that is debatable.

 

[maplesyrup]

I actually don't have a problem with drafting Schenn in retrospect.  Nik, people had high -- very high -- expectations for him.  There was 1 scout who called him the best defensive defenseman in the draft for the last 25 years, the human eraser, etc.  If you think you might get the next Scott Stevens, you do that at #5 IMO.

The best-case scenario for us is that Carlyle gets them all into a defensive system that they can handle and Schenn-Gardiner become a long-term partnership.

So yeah, to return to the draft, I'd still go for Dumba or that other guy if they were available, or at least think very seriously about it.

The "other guy" is Murray who I'd love to have in the our stable too. 

 

[Tigger]

This is a really good site for up to date mock drafts and I agree with their prediction:

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/

1. Yakupov is the obvious choice for Columbus.
2. Edmonton is desperate for D and Dumba is a stud.
3. Montreal needs Center and Grigorenko seems to be the best available and he played in the QMJHL. Good fit.
4. Islanders need defence also and will take the next best available and a great puck mover in Murray.
5. Leafs should have a choice between Galchenyuk and Forsberg. Many have said that Galchenyuk would have challenged for #1 with Yakupov but was injured for most of the season which caused the drop. Big Centerman which the Leafs desperately need!

When I read the synopsis of Grigorenko vs. the one on Galchenyuk you see a wide gap between 3 and 5. I am still struggling with what could have been......

Well, y'know, go back over all 82 games and then ponder if you sleep with your beard over or under the covers, it's like getting rid of hiccups or some such.

Seriously though, the Leafs are going to get a shot at a good player with that selection, there's at least six pretty good candidates and they might be able to trade it up too.

Looking at the other teams in the bottom 14, I wonder if there's an opportunity with Buffalo as a more 'win now' group? Would they be willing to deal their pick?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Looking at the other teams in the bottom 14, I wonder if there's an opportunity with Buffalo as a more 'win now' group? Would they be willing to deal their pick?

Burke had said on a number of occasions that he finds it almost impossible to make a deal with Darcy Regier, so yeah...

 

[Tigger]

Looking at the other teams in the bottom 14, I wonder if there's an opportunity with Buffalo as a more 'win now' group? Would they be willing to deal their pick?

Burke had said on a number of occasions that he finds it almost impossible to make a deal with Darcy Regier, so yeah...

Send in Nonis?

 

[bustaheims]

I'm leaning towards keeping the pick and drafting a guy with more upside but there was talk earlier in the season (when we were in a far worse slot) that Bellville's C Brendan Gaunce could be a potential Burke target. I don't know, if the brass truly likes him I'm wondering if Washington might be inclined to trade picks #11 and #16 for our #5. - Not sure if that's exactly even or not. Anyway, maybe there's an outside chance Faska slips to #11 and if not Gaunce seems an interesting prospect. - Who knows what you then do with pick #16. Anyway, like I said, I'm leaning towards hitting a homer than two doubles or one double and a triple in this draft but maybe trading back exists as an option here.

It's really hard to judge this stuff until A) we know the results of the lottery and B) we know exactly where Washington's 1st rounder is going to be. It may be 16th right now, but, it could also end up at 30.

 

[maplesyrup]

I'm leaning towards keeping the pick and drafting a guy with more upside but there was talk earlier in the season (when we were in a far worse slot) that Bellville's C Brendan Gaunce could be a potential Burke target. I don't know, if the brass truly likes him I'm wondering if Washington might be inclined to trade picks #11 and #16 for our #5. - Not sure if that's exactly even or not. Anyway, maybe there's an outside chance Faska slips to #11 and if not Gaunce seems an interesting prospect. - Who knows what you then do with pick #16. Anyway, like I said, I'm leaning towards hitting a homer than two doubles or one double and a triple in this draft but maybe trading back exists as an option here.

It's really hard to judge this stuff until A) we know the results of the lottery and B) we know exactly where Washington's 1st rounder is going to be. It may be 16th right now, but, it could also end up at 30.

Jeebus. Yeah, I completely forgot it could be 11 + who knows. Either way, maybe two first rounders is better than one in this draft. I really don't know. 

 

[ZBBM]

I actually don't have a problem with drafting Schenn in retrospect.  Nik, people had high -- very high -- expectations for him.  There was 1 scout who called him the best defensive defenseman in the draft for the last 25 years, the human eraser, etc.  If you think you might get the next Scott Stevens, you do that at #5 IMO.

The best-case scenario for us is that Carlyle gets them all into a defensive system that they can handle and Schenn-Gardiner become a long-term partnership.

So yeah, to return to the draft, I'd still go for Dumba or that other guy if they were available, or at least think very seriously about it.

The "other guy" is Murray who I'd love to have in the our stable too.

Thank you.  I have a mental block with kids names Ryan / Tyler / Taylor etc.  Can't keep 'em all straight.

 

[Kin]

I actually don't have a problem with drafting Schenn in retrospect.  Nik, people had high -- very high -- expectations for him.  There was 1 scout who called him the best defensive defenseman in the draft for the last 25 years, the human eraser, etc.  If you think you might get the next Scott Stevens, you do that at #5 IMO.

I'm not sure why that's directed my way because I'd agree expectations were high. What I'd disagree with is the idea that people thought Schenn would be that immediately. The Scott Stevens we talk about when we talk about a comparison for Schenn didn't emerge until Stevens was in his late 20's. Adam Foote, another comparison for Schenn, wasn't really in the league before he was Schenn's age.

High expectations for Schenn were reasonable. Expecting results right away wasn't.

 

[bustaheims]

Jeebus. Yeah, I completely forgot it could be 11 + who knows. Either way, maybe two first rounders is better than one in this draft. I really don't know.

I'm going to go out on a fairly stable limb and say having a top 5 pick is going to be more valuable than having the 11th pick and, say, the 27th pick. Even with 11 & 16, it's iffy, since so many reports have this draft at really being about 10-12 players deep in terms of actual 1st round calibre talent.

 

[maplesyrup]

Jeebus. Yeah, I completely forgot it could be 11 + who knows. Either way, maybe two first rounders is better than one in this draft. I really don't know.

I'm going to go out on a fairly stable limb and say having a top 5 pick is going to be more valuable than having the 11th pick and, say, the 27th pick. Even with 11 & 16, it's iffy, since so many reports have this draft at really being about 10-12 players deep in terms of actual 1st round calibre talent.

Yeah, as I said, that's the way I'm kind of leaning too. Maybe if there's truly a guy the Leafs like in the middle of the 1st round they can trade up from the 35th pick,  adding a player or a prospect. Probably better to do it that way than trade away the 5th/6th.   

 

[skrackle]

Just some random thoughts on this topic: I figured the Leafs ended up drafting 8th, but it turns out they have 5th spot with a (slim) chance at the top pick. Cool.

Schenn. I think he's flustered right now and is as glad as anybody that the season's finally over. I wouldn't give up on him. Nor would I hesitate to trade him in the right deal, whatever that may be.

I know it always depends on what trade might be made, but I would like to see the Leafs draft and develop the high picks they are likely to be eligible for, in the way of establishing a new philosophy of necessary patience over the next few years.

Not all high picks will work out, but the ones that do would be worth it.

 

[lamajama]

All I can say is Tank Nation begged for a top pick and we'd better use
it and not trade down or trade it away. I can't fathom what would make me agree with such a trade - and before you guys start throwing names like Crosby or Gino etc at me you know what I mean. 

PS Nash doesn't cut it either.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

This is a really good site for up to date mock drafts and I agree with their prediction:

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/

1. Yakupov is the obvious choice for Columbus.
2. Edmonton is desperate for D and Dumba is a stud.
3. Montreal needs Center and Grigorenko seems to be the best available and he played in the QMJHL. Good fit.
4. Islanders need defence also and will take the next best available and a great puck mover in Murray.
5. Leafs should have a choice between Galchenyuk and Forsberg. Many have said that Galchenyuk would have challenged for #1 with Yakupov but was injured for most of the season which caused the drop. Big Centerman which the Leafs desperately need!

When I read the synopsis of Grigorenko vs. the one on Galchenyuk you see a wide gap between 3 and 5. I am still struggling with what could have been......

I wouldn't put too much stock in that.  This is what it says on each page:

Would you like to write a player profile for any prospect that may be entering the 2012 NHL Draft? Email profiles of any player (even players not on our list) to our Webmaster. Credit will be given to the author of the profile.

Who knows who really wrote any of the blurbs, and whether they are at all qualified to do so. 

And the fact that pretty much every mock draft on the internet has Galchenyuk at around #4-5 despite playing all of 7 or whatever games this season, is a good indicator of how well thought of he is.

 

[Jalili]

Well, I think we have very different definitions of what a competent defensive player is.

Gunnarsson, for example, played with the same sub-par group and was, in my mind, competent for the most part in his own end this season. Phaneuf, who's been notorious around the league for his poor decision making, was at the very least semi-competent while tackling the heaviest workload.

Well, we disagree about how Phaneuf played this year at least. I think Phaneuf's play was a lot further off from what you want out of your #1 than Schenn's was what you want from a #5.

Gunnarsson is not someone I'd describe as simply being competent. I'd describe him as being pretty good. I think he acquitted himself very well this season in tough situations.

I'm not using competent as some sort of high praise. I just think you're exaggerating what should be expected out of a bottom pairing defenseman in the NHL.

I don't disagree with you that playing on this team has had an adverse effect on him, but I think Schenn was also exposed pretty badly with a few glaring weaknesses that are his own individual problems. Maybe in a more favourable situation, those weaknesses aren't nearly as obvious, but that's not the kind of player I would be satisfied with using a top 5 pick on, unless it's in a year where the draft class is the pits.

I don't think I said that playing with the Leafs has hurt Schenn, I just think it's made his errors more noticeable. I think that if you looked around the league at people filling the role that Schenn's filled in his time here you're going to find guys who have flaws and make mistakes. A flawless defensive defenseman isn't going to be a bottom pairing guy. He's going to get 20+ minutes and lead the league in SH ice-time.

Should you be satisfied on using a top 5 pick on a bottom pairing defenseman? Probably not but that's assuming that what Schenn is right now is all he'll ever be. That's an entirely separate discussion.

Schenn being a "bad pick" is ultimately going to depend on him as a finished product, not what he is now. For him to be seen as a good pick in your eyes he'd have had to have been terrific by now which isn't particularly realistic.

Fair enough regarding Gunnarsson and Phaneuf.

As for Schenn... I just think he was a questionable pick to begin with which, I'll admit, was based on his label of being a stay at home defenseman. To me, that isn't the kind of player you shoot for with a really high pick. Since then, he's also had 2 very questionable seasons out of his last 3. Hopefully he proves me wrong next year.

 

[Fanatic]

And the fact that pretty much every mock draft on the internet has Galchenyuk at around #4-5 despite playing all of 7 or whatever games this season, is a good indicator of how well thought of he is.

I don't think the Leafs can afford to take a chance that his knee is okay. It seems to me that they have done this before and it ended badly.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

And the fact that pretty much every mock draft on the internet has Galchenyuk at around #4-5 despite playing all of 7 or whatever games this season, is a good indicator of how well thought of he is.

I don't think the Leafs can afford to take a chance that his knee is okay. It seems to me that they have done this before and it ended badly.

Not ringing a bell off the top of my head...

 

[Corn Flake]

And the fact that pretty much every mock draft on the internet has Galchenyuk at around #4-5 despite playing all of 7 or whatever games this season, is a good indicator of how well thought of he is.

I don't think the Leafs can afford to take a chance that his knee is okay. It seems to me that they have done this before and it ended badly.

His knee is okay. He returned for the playoffs.  It's what to expect after losing a year of hockey.

If he had played all last year and assuming a generally upward trajectory in his development, he probably would be in the conversation for 1st overall. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

And the fact that pretty much every mock draft on the internet has Galchenyuk at around #4-5 despite playing all of 7 or whatever games this season, is a good indicator of how well thought of he is.

I don't think the Leafs can afford to take a chance that his knee is okay. It seems to me that they have done this before and it ended badly.

His knee is okay. He returned for the playoffs.  It's what to expect after losing a year of hockey.

If he had played all last year and assuming a generally upward trajectory in his development, he probably would be in the conversation for 1st overall.

Not sure at all if the injuries are the same ones, but Jared Cowen had his season ended by a knee injury and seemed okay for Ottawa this season.