Trade Deadline

[princedpw]

Anecdotally, there are so many examples of young guys playing well and old guys playing poorly (and of course, good goaltenders simply playing well because they always play well) that I myself can't tell if experience vs inexperience really has any noticeable effect at all.  Wasn't Stanley cup winning Fleury experienced but beyond awful last year?  Wasn't Cam Ward great but inexperienced when he won?

Well, I think you're right but I think the point being made is that, and I think the numbers back this up, inexperience can be a factor and there are quite a few goalies, good ones, whose first crack at playoff hockey went poorly. That's not to say that you can't possibly go into the playoffs with Reimer as your #1, just that you might want a better plan B than Ben Scrivens.

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers to back it up (not that I expect you to go out and find them ... but if anybody happened to know where I could see some without much work on my part, it would be interesting).

I certainly find it plausible that inexperienced goaltenders could perform worse going from regular season to post season --- but I'm really just not sure.  I also find it plausible that lots of people believe that inexperienced goaltenders perform worse because they remember some specific time (or several times) an inexperienced goaltender performed badly --- but that's balanced by experienced goaltenders performing badly (and/or inexperienced goaltenders performing well).  We all know there's lots of randomness and bounces in a short 7-game series and that's going to make lots of good goalies look bad and bad goalies look good.  People just aren't very good at synthesizing all that noisy information accurately and uncovering the true trends ...

Summary:  I'd love to see the numbers 'cause I'm not sure how much of a factor experience is.  How much value should a team trade for veteran goaltending?  How much worse talent-wise can a veteran be than a rookie before their veteran status is useless?

 

[maplesyrup]

Second hand info but...

@dantencer: Bobby Mac on TSN says Bartkowski, Khoklachev and 1st for Iginla is imminent according to sources close to the Bruins. Not confirmed, he says

 

[maplesyrup]

... aaaaaand apparently Iginla is a healthy scratch tonight. 

 

[Palmateer29]

... aaaaaand apparently Iginla is a healthy scratch tonight.

Poor Iginla going from a team that isn't going to win to a team that isn't going to win. It's only about 3 years after the time he SHOULD have been traded.

 

[princedpw]

... aaaaaand apparently Iginla is a healthy scratch tonight.

Poor Iginla going from a team that isn't going to win to a team that isn't going to win. It's only about 3 years after the time he SHOULD have been traded.

Are you saying the Bruins have no chance to win?  It's always a crapshoot, but I'd put them in my top 3:  Pittsburgh, Bruins, Chicago

 

[bustaheims]

Second hand info but...

@dantencer: Bobby Mac on TSN says Bartkowski, Khoklachev and 1st for Iginla is imminent according to sources close to the Bruins. Not confirmed, he says

That's a pretty sad return if that is indeed the trade. 2 okay prospects and a late 1st? This is why you don't hire Jay Feaster.

 

[Kaberle15]

Iggy is off to Pitts, a late 1st and 2 unsigned NCAA prospects (Agostino, former  5th 2010 and Hanowski 3rd rounder 2009)

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Second hand info but...

@dantencer: Bobby Mac on TSN says Bartkowski, Khoklachev and 1st for Iginla is imminent according to sources close to the Bruins. Not confirmed, he says

That's a pretty sad return if that is indeed the trade. 2 okay prospects and a late 1st? This is why you don't hire Jay Feaster.

Well, he was a healthy scratch last night so the Flames are probably just happy to get what they can for him. 

 

[Zee]

Second hand info but...

@dantencer: Bobby Mac on TSN says Bartkowski, Khoklachev and 1st for Iginla is imminent according to sources close to the Bruins. Not confirmed, he says

That's a pretty sad return if that is indeed the trade. 2 okay prospects and a late 1st? This is why you don't hire Jay Feaster.

More than the Leafs got for Sundin.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Second hand info but...

@dantencer: Bobby Mac on TSN says Bartkowski, Khoklachev and 1st for Iginla is imminent according to sources close to the Bruins. Not confirmed, he says

That's a pretty sad return if that is indeed the trade. 2 okay prospects and a late 1st? This is why you don't hire Jay Feaster.

More than the Leafs got for Sundin.

And in both cases the player had a NMC.  Sundin didn't want to get traded at all, and Iginla had Pittsburgh at the top of his list.  Feaster could not have done any better considering Iginla had all the cards.

 

[Kin]

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers to back it up (not that I expect you to go out and find them ... but if anybody happened to know where I could see some without much work on my part, it would be interesting).

I certainly find it plausible that inexperienced goaltenders could perform worse going from regular season to post season --- but I'm really just not sure.  I also find it plausible that lots of people believe that inexperienced goaltenders perform worse because they remember some specific time (or several times) an inexperienced goaltender performed badly --- but that's balanced by experienced goaltenders performing badly (and/or inexperienced goaltenders performing well).  We all know there's lots of randomness and bounces in a short 7-game series and that's going to make lots of good goalies look bad and bad goalies look good.  People just aren't very good at synthesizing all that noisy information accurately and uncovering the true trends ...

Just to clarify things, my position isn't one that could really be "backed up" because I'm not saying that younger players playing poorly in their first playoffs is a certainty or a hard and fast rule. All I'm saying is that inexperience, or lack thereof, can be a factor and having an experienced second option could be beneficial.

So unless you're saying that you don't possibly think a young goalie can fail to live up to his billings in his first crack at playoff hockey it's not really a question to be quantified in an aggregate sense.

 

[MBC]

Who would you target if you were Nonis?

I'm a little reluctant to mess with what seems to be good chemistry, but a few deals that I think would add to an already pretty good defensive game:

Liles to Wings for a 2 & 3.  Not sure what the market for a guy like Liles is like but this return seems reasonable.  In the past, this is the kind of guy the Wings would give up a 1st for.

The Wings' 2 & (3 or Ashton) to Edmonton for Smid & Ryan Jones.  Smid can't move the puck like Liles, but is bigger, and much more physical.  Jones offers decent speed and forechecking and can play up on the 2nd line in a pinch. 

Frattin, Gunnarson, 2nd to Calgary for Bouwmeester.  Bouwmeester's minutes and durability speak for themselves.  He and Gunnarson play a similar style, but Bouwmeester is better at it.  His contract for next year is too much, but manageable especially if Liles' contract is moved..  This is a better package than Calgary got for Iginla, but I think that at this point Boumeester is the better asset - especially for Toronto.

No flashy moves, no "true" #1 C and no "true" #1 G.  But overall Toronto gets bigger, and better defensively.  Not bad things to add for a playoff run.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Smid is about to sign an extension today apparently so he isn't moving and I'm not a fan of Jones, don't think he is better than what we have.

I'd probably take that offer for Liles and no chance I'd give up Frattin and Gunnarsson as well as a second.

Frattin has real top six scoring chops and when healthy Gunnarsson just eats up minutes.

A 2nd and a mid level prospect for JayBo maybe, otherwise I'd pass.

 

[Redleaf]

Smid is about to sign an extension today apparently so he isn't moving and I'm not a fan of Jones, don't think he is better than what we have.

I'd probably take that offer for Liles and no chance I'd give up Frattin and Gunnarsson as well as a second.

Frattin has real top six scoring chops and when healthy Gunnarsson just eats up minutes.

A 2nd and a mid level prospect for JayBo maybe, otherwise I'd pass.

Agreed. I could see Frattin really lighting it up come playoff time. He's proven he has another gear when the games matter. He could very well be our version of Dustin Brown if we can get on a bit of a run.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Why...

@BroadStBull 46s

CONFIRMED: #Flyers are having exploratory talks for Jagr, Clowe and Bouwmeester.

 

[bustaheims]

Why...

@BroadStBull 46s

CONFIRMED: #Flyers are having exploratory talks for Jagr, Clowe and Bouwmeester.

They've actually moved with 2 points of a playoff spot, so, I kind of get it. They don't have the cap space to add anyone who has a contract that goes past this season without sending out equal dollars, though - and they have just over the equivalent of $4M in cap space available for the deadline.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Why...

@BroadStBull 46s

CONFIRMED: #Flyers are having exploratory talks for Jagr, Clowe and Bouwmeester.

They've actually moved with 2 points of a playoff spot, so, I kind of get it. They don't have the cap space to add anyone who has a contract that goes past this season without sending out equal dollars, though - and they have just over the equivalent of $4M in cap space available for the deadline.

Even if they don't make it this year, those guys could help them next season. Bouwmeester has a year left on his contract of course and would fill that gaping hope Pronger left on their blueline. And rumours are that a Clowe trade could potentially come with a contract extension, so he wouldn't just be a rental.

Like you said though, there's a lot of cap issues for them to get past to make those trades work.

 

[Kaberle15]

@Aaron Ward
Calgary Flames have granted Toronto Maple Leafs permission to talk to Kiprusoffs representatives

Unless he is coming with Komisarek going the other way or with Bouwmeester, they should pass.

 

[bustaheims]

@Aaron Ward
Calgary Flames have granted Toronto Maple Leafs permission to talk to Kiprusoffs representatives

Unless he is coming with Komisarek going the other way or with Bouwmeester, they should pass.

He can't sign an extension until the summer, so, I'm not sure how much there is to talk about here, but, whatever. I'm also not convinced Kipper isn't pretty much done - he's been mostly bad this season.

 

[bustaheims]

DarrenDreger: As per @aaronward_nhl the Leafs have permission to speak with Kiprusoff. No trade in place, but process moves forward.#tradecentre

DamoSpin: Kiprussof deal between Flames and Leafs would likely be something like a third rounder that goes to a second if Leafs make playoffs.

In the unlikely instance that Cox is close to right, that's a manageable asset cost.