Training Camp Thread

[Redleaf]

@markhmasters
Leafs practice lines:
JVR-Bozak-Kessel;
Lupul-Kadri-Kozun;
Komarov-Santorelli-Clarkson;
Winnik-Holland-Frattin
... Ashton, Leivo

This is encouraging.

Very!
That Kozun is working out seems to allow the choices to be made easier down the depth chart.  If he can truly be a second line player, that gives us a good third line and makes one more guy expendable that otherwise would have had to be on opening night.

Encouraging. But is this really a line-up that will take great strides this season? As Burke would have put it, 'Are we sprinting yet'?

 

[bustaheims]

Just the difference in the number of points the 4th line could contribute this season relative to last season's should be fairly significant.  Obviously no 4th line is going to light it up, but the Leafs had to have had one of the worst offensive outputs from their 4th line in the league.

It certainly can't get much worse than the basically zero output they got from it last season.

 

[Coco-puffs]

@markhmasters
Leafs practice lines:
JVR-Bozak-Kessel;
Lupul-Kadri-Kozun;
Komarov-Santorelli-Clarkson;
Winnik-Holland-Frattin
... Ashton, Leivo

This is encouraging.

Very!
That Kozun is working out seems to allow the choices to be made easier down the depth chart.  If he can truly be a second line player, that gives us a good third line and makes one more guy expendable that otherwise would have had to be on opening night.

Encouraging. But is this really a line-up that will take great strides this season? As Burke would have put it, 'Are we sprinting yet'?

Well, I like those third and fourth lines more than any we had last season.  The first line is the first line- probably still going to be one of the most lethal in the league.  I think our second line is the weak link.  Lupul and Kadri aren't good defensively and are inconsistent offensively (Kadri more-so on the inconsistent); Kozun is unproven but will definitely help with speed on that line.  Inserting Booth there after he recovers from his injury or Leivo doesn't really offer a big improvement.

 

[Crucialness Key]

Just the difference in the number of points the 4th line could contribute this season relative to last season's should be fairly significant.  Obviously no 4th line is going to light it up, but the Leafs had to have had one of the worst offensive outputs from their 4th line in the league.

It certainly can't get much worse than the basically zero output they got from it last season.

We could go from having no 4th line to having two 3rd lines. That can only help.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

are inconsistent offensively (Kadri more-so on the inconsistent)

How would you argue that Kadri is inconsistent offensively?  And Lupul too I guess.

 

[bustaheims]

How would you argue that Kadri is inconsistent offensively?  And Lupul too I guess.

Because he doesn't, you know, score every game and stuff. ;D

 

[Joe S.]

 

[hap_leaf]

Just the difference in the number of points the 4th line could contribute this season relative to last season's should be fairly significant.  Obviously no 4th line is going to light it up, but the Leafs had to have had one of the worst offensive outputs from their 4th line in the league.

It certainly can't get much worse than the basically zero output they got from it last season.

We could go from having no 4th line to having two 3rd lines. That can only help.

I like that.  As well, can Clarkson really be any worse?  Certainly not.
Imagine Leo disrupting things on the forecheck and Clarkson getting more chances from that.  I could see them as a huge pita factor for opposing teams.
If the 3rd and 4th lines can chip in the odd goal that should make a major difference overall. 

 

[lc9]

Well done.  Didn't think the Leafs had it in them. 

 

[Kin]

Because he doesn't, you know, score every game and stuff. ;D

Last year, in October, January and February Kadri had 32 point in 34 games. In November, December, March and April he had 18 points in 44 games and was below .50 ppg in all four months. By comparison, someone like Mike Fisher who had almost an identical year in terms of production never had a single month below .50 ppg.

 

[Sudafederov]

I'll probably take a beating for this but here goes.

Not saying Orr was the answer, but there was a reason they went out and got him in the first place.

That year, prior to Orr's arrival was pretty tough to watch as that Leafs team was easily intimidated. While times have changed, I don't think the game has changed THAT much.

I hope they add some i "functioning" toughness because I see this team getting pushed around a lot as it's presently constructed.

 

[Coco-puffs]

are inconsistent offensively (Kadri more-so on the inconsistent)

How would you argue that Kadri is inconsistent offensively?  And Lupul too I guess.

7 times last season he went 3+ games without points.  He was pretty poor in mid-December to mid-January (4 pts in 14 games from Dec-16 to Jan-14) and at the end of the season for example. 

If he want to get to the next level he needs to become more consistent- not just offensively but throughout his entire game.  Aside from the stats, I watched pretty much every game last season and saw that some games he just wasn't performing the level you'd want.

Lupul had 5 3+ game stretches without points.  Bozak, in comparison, had just 2 stretches like that.

 

[lc9]

I'll probably take a beating for this but here goes.

Not saying Orr was the answer, but there was a reason they went out and got him in the first place.

That year, prior to Orr's arrival was pretty tough to watch as that Leafs team was easily intimidated. While times have changed, I don't think the game has changed THAT much.

I hope they add some i "functioning" toughness because I see this team getting pushed around a lot as it's presently constructed.

They got pushed around last year...with orr.  It's a myth that fighters provide any protection.  Having guys like Orr and McLaren on the roster is what made this a bad hockey team.

 

[Kin]

That year, prior to Orr's arrival was pretty tough to watch as that Leafs team was easily intimidated. While times have changed, I don't think the game has changed THAT much.

The team the year prior to Orr's arrival was "tough to watch" because they had a first line of Blake-Stajan-Ponikarovsky. The Leafs could have had Joe Frazier on the 4th line to punch people in the face and they would have sucked.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Because he doesn't, you know, score every game and stuff. ;D

Last year, in October, January and February Kadri had 32 point in 34 games. In November, December, March and April he had 18 points in 44 games and was below .50 ppg in all four months. By comparison, someone like Mike Fisher who had almost an identical year in terms of production never had a single month below .50 ppg.

Thanks Nik.  Another way of putting it

 

[Bullfrog]

Very happy about this news. Nothing against Orr, but I'm glad to see the team valuing skill over fighting.

Though he's not been good, I'm glad to see Frattin over Orr. At least with Frattin, there's the possibility of a goal being scored, or a rush being led, or something, anything.

Very glad to see Percy sticking around for the time being. I've been rooting for him for awhile.

As CtB pointed out, there's a good collection of players that will rotate in and out of the lineup giving them some interesting options and developing some healthy competition for jobs and playing time.

I'm very pleased.

 

[dappleganger]

I'll probably take a beating for this but here goes.

Not saying Orr was the answer, but there was a reason they went out and got him in the first place.

That year, prior to Orr's arrival was pretty tough to watch as that Leafs team was easily intimidated. While times have changed, I don't think the game has changed THAT much.

I hope they add some i "functioning" toughness because I see this team getting pushed around a lot as it's presently constructed.

They got pushed around last year...with orr.  It's a myth that fighters provide any protection.  Having guys like Orr and McLaren on the roster is what made this a bad hockey team.

If you look at teams like Detroit, LA, Chaicago, and how they operate without an enforcer, I think it's the way to go.

I think the hope is guys like Phaneuf, Polak, Clarkson and to a lesser extent Komarov can stick up for teammates.

This team is missing toughness in our best players rather than one guy on the fourth line.

 

[Bullfrog]

I can't think of a clearer indication of the lack of prominence Shanahan places on fighters.

 

[dappleganger]

I can't think of a clearer indication of the lack of prominence Shanahan places on fighters.

And the league as a whole.

 

[Kin]

This team is missing toughness in our best players rather than one guy on the fourth line.

And sort of to that point I think what we're seeing isn't the de-emphasis of "toughness" but rather the re-interpretation of what it means. Even if someone does believe that intimidation is caused by physical play then it could just as easily be combated by players who display toughness by not getting knocked off their game because some shots are thrown.

It's a tough standard to hold someone to but when I think of "tough" players what comes to mind are guys like Sundin and Kaberle who were never physical in terms of what they did to other players but who would take hits all game and still be effective.