Training Camp Thread

[herman]

It points to how highly thought of this team and its current trajectory is outside of the Toronto bubble even.

Rosen turned down a different NHL suitor last year.

Borgman told Scott Wheeler that in the SHL, veteran D-men pick which side they play on, so that's why he has so much experience playing both sides.

 

[herman]

https://theathletic.com/108070/2017/09/22/bournes-takes-call-icing-on-the-pk-zach-hyman-on-the-top-line-and-more/

Bourne touches on what I was alluding to: loose puck recovery is the result of loose puck generation. Zach Hyman is the Miley Cyrus of the line.

Zach Hyman as F1 gets the opposing defensemen stopped. That?s more than half the battle right there. When opposing D have the puck with solid possession, Hyman closes incredibly fast, has an excellent stick, will stop and start and tie up, all of which allows his linemates to dig out pucks. That could have something to do with Matthews numbers above. I?ve truly never seen a player do it as well as Hyman does, ever. He?s like a calf roper.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

https://theathletic.com/108070/2017/09/22/bournes-takes-call-icing-on-the-pk-zach-hyman-on-the-top-line-and-more/

Bourne touches on what I was alluding to: loose puck recovery is the result of loose puck generation.

Zach Hyman as F1 gets the opposing defensemen stopped. That?s more than half the battle right there. When opposing D have the puck with solid possession, Hyman closes incredibly fast, has an excellent stick, will stop and start and tie up, all of which allows his linemates to dig out pucks. That could have something to do with Matthews numbers above. I?ve truly never seen a player do it as well as Hyman does, ever. He?s like a calf roper.

I thought of you when reading that, I feel filthy.

 

[disco]

https://theathletic.com/108070/2017/09/22/bournes-takes-call-icing-on-the-pk-zach-hyman-on-the-top-line-and-more/

Bourne touches on what I was alluding to: loose puck recovery is the result of loose puck generation. Zach Hyman is the Miley Cyrus of the line.

Zach Hyman as F1 gets the opposing defensemen stopped. That?s more than half the battle right there. When opposing D have the puck with solid possession, Hyman closes incredibly fast, has an excellent stick, will stop and start and tie up, all of which allows his linemates to dig out pucks. That could have something to do with Matthews numbers above. I?ve truly never seen a player do it as well as Hyman does, ever. He?s like a calf roper.

And then later it's passed back to him and he shoots it six inches wide. Puck retrieval is phenomenal for Hyman, that's pretty obvious. But his finish is terrible. The number of times I saw Zach shoot or tip the puck wide last year...

Auston's ability to steal pucks is apparent, and Willie's possession game is excellent. I would like to see Marleau/Matthews/Nylander this year, but I guess that won't happen. It appears Babs prefers Hyman's puck retrieval skills more than Marleau's finish for the top line.

 

[rdowdall]

But his finish is terrible.

How's his Swedish?

 

[bustaheims]

https://theathletic.com/108070/2017/09/22/bournes-takes-call-icing-on-the-pk-zach-hyman-on-the-top-line-and-more/

Bourne touches on what I was alluding to: loose puck recovery is the result of loose puck generation. Zach Hyman is the Miley Cyrus of the line.

Zach Hyman as F1 gets the opposing defensemen stopped. That?s more than half the battle right there. When opposing D have the puck with solid possession, Hyman closes incredibly fast, has an excellent stick, will stop and start and tie up, all of which allows his linemates to dig out pucks. That could have something to do with Matthews numbers above. I?ve truly never seen a player do it as well as Hyman does, ever. He?s like a calf roper.

I think it's a valid point; I just feel as though perhaps someone like Leivo could do a more than admirable job in the same role, with more offensive skill. That being said, I don't want to completely write off Hyman's offence based solely on his first full season. The job is still his to lose, but he shouldn't feel like it's comfortably his past October.

 

[AvroArrow]

I think it's a valid point; I just feel as though perhaps someone like Leivo could do a more than admirable job in the same role, with more offensive skill. That being said, I don't want to completely write off Hyman's offence based solely on his first full season. The job is still his to lose, but he shouldn't feel like it's comfortably his past October.

Or Kapanen, for that matter.  I thought his work on the 4th line last year showed he can crash, bang, and dig just as well.

 

[bustaheims]

Or Kapanen, for that matter.  I thought his work on the 4th line last year showed he can crash, bang, and dig just as well.

Yeah, maybe. I'd lean towards Leivo, mostly because of the size difference - as Matthews' line will be up against the other team's best most of the time, and the little extra size and/or strength could be what make the difference. Also, I'd kinda like to see Kapanen with Kadri as a kind of super pest line.

 

[AvroArrow]

Yeah, maybe. I'd lean towards Leivo, mostly because of the size difference - as Matthews' line will be up against the other team's best most of the time, and the little extra size and/or strength could be what make the difference. Also, I'd kinda like to see Kapanen with Kadri as a kind of super pest line.

Can't argue with that, but I'm not sure Babcock likes Leivo enough to play him.

 

[herman]

Or Kapanen, for that matter.  I thought his work on the 4th line last year showed he can crash, bang, and dig just as well.

Yeah, maybe. I'd lean towards Leivo, mostly because of the size difference - as Matthews' line will be up against the other team's best most of the time, and the little extra size and/or strength could be what make the difference. Also, I'd kinda like to see Kapanen with Kadri as a kind of super pest line.

On a team icing balanced minutes in the top 9, adding more scoring to the Matthews - Nylander line pulls scoring away from the other lines. Hyman boxing out defenders to free up pucks for the 4th line = no goals, unless the 4th line is no longer a Martin line.

So I'd really like to see Leivo - Aaltonen - Brown/Kapanen on the 4th.

 

[bustaheims]

On a team icing balanced minutes in the top 9, adding more scoring to the Matthews - Nylander line pulls scoring away from the other lines. Hyman boxing out defenders to free up pucks for the 4th line = no goals, unless the 4th line is no longer a Martin line.

So I'd really like to see Leivo - Aaltonen - Brown/Kapanen on the 4th.

Taking a winger from the 4th line - where Leivo probably ends up - and putting him 1st line doesn't take away offence from the team's top 9. If the winger is a more talented version of a similar type of player as the one he's replacing, it adds to it. Even if that player is in the top 9, if their offence improves more than their line's diminishes, it also adds to it.

Replacing Hyman with Leivo boosts the top 9, while the 4th line could actually become a really effective checking/defensive unit if it's 3 of Hyman/Moore/Komarov/Brown. With the roster as it's likely to end up, I'd go with a lineup something like this:

Leivo-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Kadri-Kapanen
JvR-Bozak-Marner
Hyman-Moore-Brown

Team's likely stuck with Martin as the 13th forward, so Komarov gets moved. Top 3 lines have nice balance. 4th line . . . not likely to contribute much offence regardless of who is on the wings (though, with 3 quicker guys on that line, maybe they chip in a little more than expected), but gets the team's prime PK forwards a little less stressful a night overall.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/koshtorontosun/status/911627332200407040

Just in case anybody thought there was a chance Martin wasn't a 100% lock for the line-up there's the confirmation.

 

[Frank E]

https://twitter.com/koshtorontosun/status/911627332200407040

Just in case anybody thought there was a chance Martin wasn't a 100% lock for the line-up there's the confirmation.

I don't understand the quote?

 

[Kin]

I don't understand the quote?

There are 9 guys who are locks. Marner, Kadri, Matthews, Marleau, Hyman, Komarov, JVR, Bozak, Nylander. Babcock is saying Martin and Brown are also.

So he's saying one spot is undecided. Although it will probably be Moore.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't understand the quote?

There are 9 guys who are locks. Marner, Kadri, Matthews, Marleau, Hyman, Komarov, JVR, Bozak, Nylander. Babcock is saying Martin and Brown are also.

So he's saying one spot is undecided. Although it will probably be Moore.

Basically, without a trade, the forwards are set, whether we like it or not. Leivo probably rounds out the group as the 13th forward.

 

[Frank E]

I don't understand the quote?

There are 9 guys who are locks. Marner, Kadri, Matthews, Marleau, Hyman, Komarov, JVR, Bozak, Nylander. Babcock is saying Martin and Brown are also.

So he's saying one spot is undecided. Although it will probably be Moore.

Basically, without a trade, the forwards are set, whether we like it or not. Leivo probably rounds out the group as the 13th forward.

Got it.  Thank you, gentlemen.

And I agree about Moore, he hasn't really been outplayed by Aaltonen yet.

I have a hard time thinking they'd waive Leivo after protecting him in the expansion draft...so there you have it,

The defense is a little more interesting though.

 

[Kin]

I probably say some version of this every year but unless your team is just hot garbage my guess is it's very rare for a spot to really be up for grabs in pre-season. Even still, I'd bet performance in practice is just as important as games.

 

[bustaheims]

I probably say some version of this every year but unless your team is just hot garbage my guess is it's very rare for a spot to really be up for grabs in pre-season. Even still, I'd bet performance in practice is just as important as games.

I think, even on reasonably decent teams, the 12/13th forward and 6/7 defenceman are often spots available to be won in the pre-season - usually only for a small group of players (like, 3 players competing for 2 spots), and often by design (team has some young guys they hope are ready, but, want to be sure). Anything more significant than that? Nope.

 

[Kin]

I think, even on reasonably decent teams, the 12/13th forward and 6/7 defenceman are often spots available to be won in the pre-season - usually only for a small group of players (like, 3 players competing for 2 spots), and often by design (team has some young guys they hope are ready, but, want to be sure). Anything more significant than that? Nope.

I buy that about 13th and 7th. Less so about 12 and 6.

But even then I think it becomes as much about philosophy and waiver considerations as it is play during pre-season games.

 

[bustaheims]

But even then I think it becomes as much about philosophy and waiver considerations as it is play during pre-season games.

Agreed. Preseason games tend to be more important consideration to the fans, but to the team itself, I expect they're at or near the bottom of the list of factors - especially these early games.