UFA 2012 / July 1st 2012 Thread

[L K]

Garrison 6 yrs @ 4.6 to the Canucks.

Enjoy that one.  Jeff Finger Volume 2.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Garrison 6 yrs @ 4.6 to the Canucks.

Could have probably gotten a fair bit more elsewhere. Still, even with a home-town discount it's an overpayment.

 

[Deebo]

The Canucks board at hfboards seems to absolutley love the signing.

 

[PG]

I know we probably stand little chance of attracting either of these two, but the one thing that really bothers me about Burke is that his ridiculous stance on "cap circumventing" deals takes the leafs out of the running before we even have a chance to be considered.

Yeah, but you can't argue with success!

If I owned the team, I'd insist he changed that stance or I'd fire him, unless it's ownership that is telling him not to sign deals like this.

I really don't understand how he can operate in this manner, I could see a scenario where we lose Kessel because we refuse to give him a deal like this.

It infuriates me to no end. It's hard enough to build a Cup contender, and yet you handicap yourself even more with some idiotic self-imposed "principles"? 

 

[Darryl]

I like Prust but 4 years 10 mil is stupid money for a 4th liner. Thanks for the chuckle Montreal.

 

[TML fan]

I know we probably stand little chance of attracting either of these two, but the one thing that really bothers me about Burke is that his ridiculous stance on "cap circumventing" deals takes the leafs out of the running before we even have a chance to be considered.

Yeah, but you can't argue with success!

If I owned the team, I'd insist he changed that stance or I'd fire him, unless it's ownership that is telling him not to sign deals like this.

I really don't understand how he can operate in this manner, I could see a scenario where we lose Kessel because we refuse to give him a deal like this.

It infuriates me to no end. It's hard enough to build a Cup contender, and yet you handicap yourself even more with some idiotic self-imposed "principles"?

I wouldn't be surprised if the new CBA lined up with Burke's "idiotic principles".

 

[skippy]

I know we probably stand little chance of attracting either of these two, but the one thing that really bothers me about Burke is that his ridiculous stance on "cap circumventing" deals takes the leafs out of the running before we even have a chance to be considered.

Yeah, but you can't argue with success!

If I owned the team, I'd insist he changed that stance or I'd fire him, unless it's ownership that is telling him not to sign deals like this.

I really don't understand how he can operate in this manner, I could see a scenario where we lose Kessel because we refuse to give him a deal like this.

It infuriates me to no end. It's hard enough to build a Cup contender, and yet you handicap yourself even more with some idiotic self-imposed "principles"?

I wouldn't be surprised if the new CBA lined up with Burke's "idiotic principles".

Awesome. So we should be able to expect Burke to finally be able to build a winner soon? Will players be banned from wearing ballcaps at the draft in the new CBA?

 

[TML fan]

I know we probably stand little chance of attracting either of these two, but the one thing that really bothers me about Burke is that his ridiculous stance on "cap circumventing" deals takes the leafs out of the running before we even have a chance to be considered.

Yeah, but you can't argue with success!

If I owned the team, I'd insist he changed that stance or I'd fire him, unless it's ownership that is telling him not to sign deals like this.

I really don't understand how he can operate in this manner, I could see a scenario where we lose Kessel because we refuse to give him a deal like this.

It infuriates me to no end. It's hard enough to build a Cup contender, and yet you handicap yourself even more with some idiotic self-imposed "principles"?

I wouldn't be surprised if the new CBA lined up with Burke's "idiotic principles".

Awesome. So we should be able to expect Burke to finally be able to build a winner soon? Will players be banned from wearing ballcaps at the draft in the new CBA?

Just expect to not be able to exploit obvious oversights in the cap system.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

I know we probably stand little chance of attracting either of these two, but the one thing that really bothers me about Burke is that his ridiculous stance on "cap circumventing" deals takes the leafs out of the running before we even have a chance to be considered.

Yeah, but you can't argue with success!

If I owned the team, I'd insist he changed that stance or I'd fire him, unless it's ownership that is telling him not to sign deals like this.

I really don't understand how he can operate in this manner, I could see a scenario where we lose Kessel because we refuse to give him a deal like this.

It infuriates me to no end. It's hard enough to build a Cup contender, and yet you handicap yourself even more with some idiotic self-imposed "principles"?

Wasn't the first team to start the long term contracts the New York Islanders?  First with DiPietro and then Yashin?  How is that working out for them?

Do not assume that Burke is avoiding long term contracts merely for "self-imposed principles".  You can make a business argument either way.  They are working for Detroit. Definitely not Long Island. Philadelphia may not be in love with them as much as they were.  They jetissoned Richards and Carter and must be regretting the commitment to Bryzgalov.  Do you think that Vancouver would find it easier to trade Luongo with a shorter contract?

Personally, I would prefer a strategy of paying more per year on shorter contracts than taking the risk of the longer contracts.

 

[Kin]

Wasn't the first team to start the long term contracts the New York Islanders?  First with DiPietro and then Yashin?  How is that working out for them?

Well, no. Yashin signed his deal before DiPietro and before the cap. Either way, neither contract is an example of front loading a contract and "circumventing" the cap.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

Wasn't the first team to start the long term contracts the New York Islanders?  First with DiPietro and then Yashin?  How is that working out for them?

Well, no. Yashin signed his deal before DiPietro and before the cap. Either way, neither contract is an example of front loading a contract and "circumventing" the cap.

You are correct; Yashin signed his deal before DiPietro.

You are wrong; it is not the cap circumvention that hamstrings a team - it is the length of the contract. 

 

[Kin]

You are wrong; it is not the cap circumvention that hamstrings a team - it is the length of the contract.

Um, alright. But the discussion was about Burke's stance about deals that "circumvent" the cap. Not deals that are of a certain term. The point being made was that Burke's principles against the cap circumventing deals are hurting the team because lots of players want to sign deals of that nature and Burke's position essentially rules the Leafs out of the discussion for those players.

Long-term deals are a separate issue and while you can make the argument that the same discussion can be had about Burke's stance on them and how it benefits the team, it doesn't change the fact that the New York Islanders, and specifically the contracts they handed out to Alexei Yashin and Rick DiPietro are not examples of what was being discussed in the post you quoted.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

You are wrong; it is not the cap circumvention that hamstrings a team - it is the length of the contract.

Um, alright. But the discussion was about Burke's stance about deals that "circumvent" the cap. Not deals that are of a certain term. The point being made was that Burke's principles against the cap circumventing deals are hurting the team because lots of players want to sign deals of that nature and Burke's position essentially rules the Leafs out of the discussion for those players.

Long-term deals are a separate issue and while you can make the argument that the same discussion can be had about Burke's stance on them and how it benefits the team, it doesn't change the fact that the New York Islanders, and specifically the contracts they handed out to Alexei Yashin and Rick DiPietro are not examples of what was being discussed in the post you quoted.

I will concede this point to you as soon as you provide an example of a short term contract that circumvents the cap.

 

[Kin]

I will concede this point to you as soon as you provide an example of a short term contract that circumvents the cap.

I mean, if you don't see how a deal like DiPietro's is different than Luongo's I'm not sure how to explain it. People were talking about the Luongo type of contract that front loads a contract. There are short term deals that are front loaded too, Komisarek's for instance, but again that wasn't really the topic at hand.

And one of the reasons people are putting "circumvents" or derivations of that word in quotations is that some, including me, don't really feel that deals of that nature circumvent the cap

 

[Britishbulldog]

I like Prust but 4 years 10 mil is stupid money for a 4th liner. Thanks for the chuckle Montreal.

I wasn't sure if anyone else thought that as well.  Only once did Prust score more than 5 goals in a season.

NYR let him go and signed Asham for only $1.0 MIL.

 

[bustaheims]

I have trouble with being okay with overpaying non-impact players but overpaying for top talent is out question because he refuses to go a couple years longer and tacking on some bogus years at the end due to "morals".

I get that, but, at the same time, while he's been here, the only prominent UFA that the Leafs seemed to really be in on that signed a deal like that was Brad Richards, and really, with the way things played out, it felt like he had decided on the Rangers before any teams even made a bid. If we're being totally honest about the situation, I'd be hard pressed to say that this particular principle of Burke's has been the reason a player chose to sign elsewhere.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

I will concede this point to you as soon as you provide an example of a short term contract that circumvents the cap.

I mean, if you don't see how a deal like DiPietro's is different than Luongo's I'm not sure how to explain it. People were talking about the Luongo type of contract that front loads a contract. There are short term deals that are front loaded too, Komisarek's for instance, but again that wasn't really the topic at hand.

And one of the reasons people are putting "circumvents" or derivations of that word in quotations is that some, including me, don't really feel that deals of that nature circumvent the cap

Sorry, but the topic was not about circumventing the salary cap.  The topic under discussion was the premise that the Leafs are handicapping themselves through self-imposed principles.  (And, with all due respect, I suspect that someone who is as argumentative as you understands the structure of an argument!)

The rebuttal is that there are valid business reasons for avoiding long term contracts, namely the risk.  I then proceeded to provide examples, DiPietro and Yashin, while conceding that not all long term contracts are as disastrous.

The insertion into the argument that front-end loaded contract are somehow different is both irrelevant and invalid.  (Just a small piece of advice, but when you have to stoop to offer the Komisarek contact as evidence of best practice in anything, you have already lost the argument.)

As pointed out by cw in another thread, there is no example of a long term contract (front-end loaded or not) helping any team win a Cup.  So, to paraphrase Ben Scrivens, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.

 

[Bullfrog]

As pointed out by cw in another thread, there is no example of a long term contract (front-end loaded or not) helping any team win a Cup.  So, to paraphrase Ben Scrivens, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.

Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Doughty?

 

[puckhog78]

As pointed out by cw in another thread, there is no example of a long term contract (front-end loaded or not) helping any team win a Cup.  So, to paraphrase Ben Scrivens, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.

Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Doughty?

LOL. i guess they dont count?

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

As pointed out by cw in another thread, there is no example of a long term contract (front-end loaded or not) helping any team win a Cup.  So, to paraphrase Ben Scrivens, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.

Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Doughty?

Those guys are young, and were drafted or traded for by LA, not UFA signings.