Useless Thread

[Arn]

Today is my last day in the office of my job of the last 8 years. There were a few things that had got me to the point that I was looking elsewhere, so I was obviously unsettled enough to be looking (mostly around return to work protocols after Covid).

But the big boss just gave a nice leaving speech and it reminded me that I had a lot of good times in this job. I was actually massively fortunate to have had a lot of amazing opportunities for travel in particular, and to some really off the beaten track destinations. Brexit has actually killed those projects so those opportunities are gone anyway.

I also associate my time in this job with getting married and the arrival of my kid, and the support they gave me around both those things.

So for the first time in over 6 months (since I applied for the new job, got the offer and worked my 3 month notice period) it's hit me that there's a big change coming and unsettled me a little.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I've just gone through something similar Arn. It's a weird feeling of anxiety and relief at the same time.
Good luck to you in your new venture.

 

[Highlander]

Good luck Arn.  I too am looking at some changes.  The pandemic has changed my industry and not for the better.

 

[Joe S.]

Just a general rant. I?m tired of the notion of ?return to work?. We never stopped working. It?s return to office.

And if anything we?ve proven that if your job allows for it, work from home works perfectly well. I?m more productive and I?m putting more hours at work because I don?t need to spend 2 hours a day in transit so I can sit in a cubicle to join conference calls.

I realize not everyone can work from home, but for those that can, it?s a great benefit.

 

[bustaheims]

Just a general rant. I?m tired of the notion of ?return to work?. We never stopped working. It?s return to office.

And if anything we?ve proven that if your job slows for it, work from home works perfectly well. I?m more productive and I?m putting more hours at work because I don?t need to spend 2 hours a day in transit so I can sit in a cubicle to join conference calls.

I realize not everyone can work from home, but for those that can, it?s a great benefit.

Agreed. Companies that are stuck to the traditional 9 to 5 in an office environment are going to lose quality talent to those that recognized they didn't lose any productivity through from people working from home. More and more of us are seeing the quality of life improvements from not having to commute every day.

I suspect more and more companies will transition to at least a hybrid model.

 

[Arn]

Just a general rant. I?m tired of the notion of ?return to work?. We never stopped working. It?s return to office.

And if anything we?ve proven that if your job allows for it, work from home works perfectly well. I?m more productive and I?m putting more hours at work because I don?t need to spend 2 hours a day in transit so I can sit in a cubicle to join conference calls.

I realize not everyone can work from home, but for those that can, it?s a great benefit.

I?ve just changed job (as mentioned previously in this thread a few posts back) and this was precisely the catalyst. My old place I?d been at for 8 years was absolutely obsessed with dragging everyone back into the office despite demonstrable evidence that working at home was actually benefitting. There were days I was driving for an hour to get to the office to go sit in one of the meeting pods and talk to people on MS Teams for 3 or 4 of the hours I was on for then drive an hour home.

So I had a look around to see what else was about and my new place is a balance of 1 or 2 in the office and 3 or 4 at home which has been nice so far.

 

[Peter D.]

I got really tired of the WFH initiative after a while because I craved the social interaction, especially when we were stuck in lockdown or with all the restrictions.

Now that everything is opened up again and back to normal, WFH is great.  Don't have to worry about waking up early.  Avoid traffic and the higher gas prices.  Am here to take and pick the kids up from school.  And since there is so much going on with both the kids and me every evening with activities, I get my fill of the social interaction outside of these four walls I want.

Thank goodness my boss didn't care for a hybrid model and chose for our group to remain WFH full time.  Heck, he's encouraging me to go to Greece and work from there if I wanted to.

 

[Arn]

One thing about changing job with a hybrid/wfh model I?ve not really met anyone outside my direct small team as yet. Having moved from a business of 23 staff where everyone knew everyone, it?s a little different in an organisation now with thousands.

But tbh I?ve never really been one for making friends in work so not a major issue really.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Just a general rant. I?m tired of the notion of ?return to work?. We never stopped working. It?s return to office.

And if anything we?ve proven that if your job slows for it, work from home works perfectly well. I?m more productive and I?m putting more hours at work because I don?t need to spend 2 hours a day in transit so I can sit in a cubicle to join conference calls.

I realize not everyone can work from home, but for those that can, it?s a great benefit.

Agreed. Companies that are stuck to the traditional 9 to 5 in an office environment are going to lose quality talent to those that recognized they didn't lose any productivity through from people working from home. More and more of us are seeing the quality of life improvements from not having to commute every day.

I suspect more and more companies will transition to at least a hybrid model.

I think the biggest problem is the people that aren't actually "working" while they are at home.
Yes, your top performers are doing just fine, and in some cases, as mentioned, are excelling (or exceeding expectations) when at home. But, working from home requires discipline and self motivation. Something that is lacking in many people. That said, I do agree that companies who refuse to at least explore the option are going to lose good people.

Like Peter, I enjoy new role from home. I get an extra hour of sleep each day. I get my dog out for an extra long walk every morning. I see my kid before she leaves for school. On average, I probably start work 30 minutes earlier than I use to when I had to commute to the office as well.

 

[bustaheims]

I think the biggest problem is the people that aren't actually "working" while they are at home.
Yes, your top performers are doing just fine, and in some cases, as mentioned, are excelling (or exceeding expectations) when at home. But, working from home requires discipline and self motivation. Something that is lacking in many people. That said, I do agree that companies who refuse to at least explore the option are going to lose good people.

Like Peter, I enjoy new role from home. I get an extra hour of sleep each day. I get my dog out for an extra long walk every morning. I see my kid before she leaves for school. On average, I probably start work 30 minutes earlier than I use to when I had to commute to the office as well.

The last 2+ years of people largely working from home have shown this to not be true. People still get their work done, at a similar level of quality and at a similar pace.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I think the biggest problem is the people that aren't actually "working" while they are at home.
Yes, your top performers are doing just fine, and in some cases, as mentioned, are excelling (or exceeding expectations) when at home. But, working from home requires discipline and self motivation. Something that is lacking in many people. That said, I do agree that companies who refuse to at least explore the option are going to lose good people.

Like Peter, I enjoy new role from home. I get an extra hour of sleep each day. I get my dog out for an extra long walk every morning. I see my kid before she leaves for school. On average, I probably start work 30 minutes earlier than I use to when I had to commute to the office as well.

The last 2+ years of people largely working from home have shown this to not be true. People still get their work done, at a similar level of quality and at a similar pace.

While I think for the most part, you are correct, speaking from my own personal experiences as a manager, and my wife's experiences as a school administrator, some simply are not meeting expectations. I think it's a minority, and I question whether those same people would be meeting expectations in the office.

Note: I'm not arguing that working from home shouldn't be. Nor am I arguing that office workers are more productive. I'm stating that the few that take advantage and abuse the lack of supervision while at home, have created a view from some companies that it leads to less productive workers.

 

[Bender]

I think the biggest problem is the people that aren't actually "working" while they are at home.
Yes, your top performers are doing just fine, and in some cases, as mentioned, are excelling (or exceeding expectations) when at home. But, working from home requires discipline and self motivation. Something that is lacking in many people. That said, I do agree that companies who refuse to at least explore the option are going to lose good people.

Like Peter, I enjoy new role from home. I get an extra hour of sleep each day. I get my dog out for an extra long walk every morning. I see my kid before she leaves for school. On average, I probably start work 30 minutes earlier than I use to when I had to commute to the office as well.

The last 2+ years of people largely working from home have shown this to not be true. People still get their work done, at a similar level of quality and at a similar pace.

While I think for the most part, you are correct, speaking from my own personal experiences as a manager, and my wife's experiences as a school administrator, some simply are not meeting expectations. I think it's a minority, and I question whether those same people would be meeting expectations in the office.

Note: I'm not arguing that working from home shouldn't be. Nor am I arguing that office workers are more productive. I'm stating that the few that take advantage and abuse the lack of supervision while at home, have created a view from some companies that it leads to less productive workers.

Are there not groups of people who don't meet expectations regardless?

 

[bustaheims]

Are there not groups of people who don't meet expectations regardless?

Yup. WFH isn't the issue here. Those who aren't meeting expectations from home are likely just not good fits for the company/position/etc. Many of those people wouldn't exactly be "working" in an office, either - they might give the appearance of doing so, but they're basically pushing papers around to make themselves look busy or deliver sub-standard work. Those people are seat fillers, but they're also a very small minority of the workforce in most organizations.

Also, WFH doesn't work well for all jobs. Teachers, for instance, simply can't be as productive at home than they are in a school environment. They need the direct connection to their students to be able to do their jobs to the fullest extent of their abilities. But, the majority of desk jobs can be done effectively at just about any desk.

 

[Kin]

While I think for the most part, you are correct, speaking from my own personal experiences as a manager, and my wife's experiences as a school administrator, some simply are not meeting expectations. I think it's a minority, and I question whether those same people would be meeting expectations in the office.

Note: I'm not arguing that working from home shouldn't be. Nor am I arguing that office workers are more productive. I'm stating that the few that take advantage and abuse the lack of supervision while at home, have created a view from some companies that it leads to less productive workers.

Even if that were the case that seems like it would be more of a management issue than an issue with the idea of people working from home. If someone's not pulling their weight it's usually up to effective management to monitor that, communicate it if someone's not meeting expectations and, if necessary, deal with the issue if it persists. I'm not sure how that changes if someone's not in the office.

 

[Kin]

Yup. WFH isn't the issue here. Those who aren't meeting expectations from home are likely just not good fits for the company/position/etc. Many of those people wouldn't exactly be "working" in an office, either - they might give the appearance of doing so, but they're basically pushing papers around to make themselves look busy or deliver sub-standard work. Those people are seat fillers, but they're also a very small minority of the workforce in most organizations.

I actually sort of think the issue is that enough people are proving that they are perfectly productive without bosses standing over their shoulders and so management types are getting nervous that they're going to start being seen as redundant.

 

[herman]

A lot of middle managers tend to just be top performers of the department, promoted into the role as a reward but without any actual managerial acumen. It's a double fail because the department is now saddled with ineffective oversight and down their top performer.

Anyway, here's a helpful HBR article for middle management in a remote working environment.
https://hbr.org/2021/05/its-time-to-free-the-middle-manager

 

[Bender]

Yup. WFH isn't the issue here. Those who aren't meeting expectations from home are likely just not good fits for the company/position/etc. Many of those people wouldn't exactly be "working" in an office, either - they might give the appearance of doing so, but they're basically pushing papers around to make themselves look busy or deliver sub-standard work. Those people are seat fillers, but they're also a very small minority of the workforce in most organizations.

I actually sort of think the issue is that enough people are proving that they are perfectly productive without bosses standing over their shoulders and so management types are getting nervous that they're going to start being seen as redundant.

This is just kind of my opinion but even executives have honestly been redundant for a long time now. We have awful tech where we work and no one is held accountable. And imo at places like Bell they exist solely to give the appearance of doing something. They would change a dept structure, leave and new person would revert to old dept structure, rinse and repeat.

Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk

 

[bustaheims]

Yup. WFH isn't the issue here. Those who aren't meeting expectations from home are likely just not good fits for the company/position/etc. Many of those people wouldn't exactly be "working" in an office, either - they might give the appearance of doing so, but they're basically pushing papers around to make themselves look busy or deliver sub-standard work. Those people are seat fillers, but they're also a very small minority of the workforce in most organizations.

I actually sort of think the issue is that enough people are proving that they are perfectly productive without bosses standing over their shoulders and so management types are getting nervous that they're going to start being seen as redundant.

I'm sure there's some truth to that, too.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I think the biggest problem is the people that aren't actually "working" while they are at home.
Yes, your top performers are doing just fine, and in some cases, as mentioned, are excelling (or exceeding expectations) when at home. But, working from home requires discipline and self motivation. Something that is lacking in many people. That said, I do agree that companies who refuse to at least explore the option are going to lose good people.

Like Peter, I enjoy new role from home. I get an extra hour of sleep each day. I get my dog out for an extra long walk every morning. I see my kid before she leaves for school. On average, I probably start work 30 minutes earlier than I use to when I had to commute to the office as well.

The last 2+ years of people largely working from home have shown this to not be true. People still get their work done, at a similar level of quality and at a similar pace.

While I think for the most part, you are correct, speaking from my own personal experiences as a manager, and my wife's experiences as a school administrator, some simply are not meeting expectations. I think it's a minority, and I question whether those same people would be meeting expectations in the office.

Note: I'm not arguing that working from home shouldn't be. Nor am I arguing that office workers are more productive. I'm stating that the few that take advantage and abuse the lack of supervision while at home, have created a view from some companies that it leads to less productive workers.

Are there not groups of people who don't meet expectations regardless?

I've acknowledged that.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Yup. WFH isn't the issue here. Those who aren't meeting expectations from home are likely just not good fits for the company/position/etc. Many of those people wouldn't exactly be "working" in an office, either - they might give the appearance of doing so, but they're basically pushing papers around to make themselves look busy or deliver sub-standard work. Those people are seat fillers, but they're also a very small minority of the workforce in most organizations.

I actually sort of think the issue is that enough people are proving that they are perfectly productive without bosses standing over their shoulders and so management types are getting nervous that they're going to start being seen as redundant.

I don't agree with that. Any manager that feels that way is a poor leader.