Which Dman would you add in a trade?

[Optimus Reimer]

Well, I like our chances, the "bad contracts" that we have taken back have worked out rather well for us. So we haven't really been on the losing end of any of those deals IMO.

I'm not sure that it's really happened more than once, that being the Blake/Giguere deal which I think it's safe to say didn't really work out well for anyone.

We got rid of Toskala and Blake for Giguere.  Giguere was a huge improvement over "I missed the bouncing puck" Toskala, and Blake, that was addition by subtraction.  Reimer was an improvement over Giguere, and while I am not sure who replaced Blake on the roster, the roster improved and I don't think anyone is missing Blake either.

giguere also seemed to be more of a team player when it came to the idea of getting gustavsson more ice time and so on...i think the net result was positive

If you think that's a good use of 6.5 million dollars

Looking back, Giguere was an upgrade over Toskala, but it was still a waste of $$$.

 

[Tigger]

giguere also seemed to be more of a team player when it came to the idea of getting gustavsson more ice time and so on...i think the net result was positive

I completely agree that signaled a new direction in terms of attitude and I think the Leafs got a little burned with Giguere's health, he had some significant issues that seemed to be helped with surgery and he's playing pretty decent this year in Colorado.

If for nothing but a lateral move in terms of dollars and a huge change in attitude I think it was a check in the positive side of the ledger but nothing huge in terms of stats or long term assets.

I mean, I know it's perception but getting rid of those two players wasn't really thought possible at the time and the only human remains in the deal currently is Blake, neither team suffered to me.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

And I have no idea why people have such a man-crush on Gunnarsson.  This reminds me of the Pilar man-crushes of yesteryear.  Both were average dmen that people thought were all-stars.

Alright, now I know that you're just joshing us.

 

[maplesyrup]

And I have no idea why people have such a man-crush on Gunnarsson.  This reminds me of the Pilar man-crushes of yesteryear.  Both were average dmen that people thought were all-stars.

Alright, now I know that you're just joshing us.

Must be... I haven't taken a look at the stats but my feeling is Gunnar puts up at least 5 more minutes per game than Pilar did or was capable of. 

 

[Tigger]

And I have no idea why people have such a man-crush on Gunnarsson.  This reminds me of the Pilar man-crushes of yesteryear.  Both were average dmen that people thought were all-stars.

Alright, now I know that you're just joshing us.

So, Rebel is Shayne? I dunno...

 

[Britishbulldog]

I have been spending a bit more time with my family this week and I am a bit late to the discussion so all my questions/points might have been already answered but here I go:
The NHL ready dmen should probably be broken down to left side/right side, defensive/offensive and physical/non-physical.
Age    Name  Salary  Attribute

Left Side-
31 Liles          3.875  offensive/non-physical
21 Gardiner      1.1  offensive/non-physical
25 Gunnarsson 1.325  neutral-offensive/non-physical
22 Aulie          0.733    non-offensive/physical

Right Side
22 Schenn      3.6    non-offensive/physical
30 Komisarek  4.5    non-offensive/physical
24 Franson    0.8    offensive/physical
23 Holzer      0.7      non-offensive/physical
20 Blacker      0.87    neutral-offensive/neutral physical

Both sides (but prefer on the Left)
26 Phaneuf    6.5      offensive/physical

The question I have is how many offensive, non-physical defencemen the Leafs need?

Can Holzer really replace Schenn and Komisarek so that they can be traded?

Gunnarsson / Phaneuf

Liles / Holzer

Gardiner / Franson

 

[Bender]

And I have no idea why people have such a man-crush on Gunnarsson.  This reminds me of the Pilar man-crushes of yesteryear.  Both were average dmen that people thought were all-stars.

Alright, now I know that you're just joshing us.

Must be... I haven't taken a look at the stats but my feeling is Gunnar puts up at least 5 more minutes per game than Pilar did or was capable of.

I don't recall anyone thinking Gunnarsson as an allstar.

 

[Tigger]

Fwiw bulldog I know Blacker played both sides in junior at a pretty high level, left side pk'ing, right side pp. From what I gather Gardiner has the ability to play both sides too.

Don't know as much about Holzer but I'd wager Franson would be the guy in the top 4 right side in that arrangement until I do know better.

 

[louisstamos]

And I have no idea why people have such a man-crush on Gunnarsson.  This reminds me of the Pilar man-crushes of yesteryear.  Both were average dmen that people thought were all-stars.

Alright, now I know that you're just joshing us.

Must be... I haven't taken a look at the stats but my feeling is Gunnar puts up at least 5 more minutes per game than Pilar did or was capable of.

If anything, I'd categorize him as closer to Robert Svhela...quiet and dependable, and you can call on him in most situations.

 

[maplesyrup]

And I have no idea why people have such a man-crush on Gunnarsson.  This reminds me of the Pilar man-crushes of yesteryear.  Both were average dmen that people thought were all-stars.

Alright, now I know that you're just joshing us.

Must be... I haven't taken a look at the stats but my feeling is Gunnar puts up at least 5 more minutes per game than Pilar did or was capable of.

If anything, I'd categorize him as closer to Robert Svhela...quiet and dependable, and you can call on him in most situations.

It's true... Gunnar really isn't out of place in any situation.

 

[Tigger]

And I have no idea why people have such a man-crush on Gunnarsson.  This reminds me of the Pilar man-crushes of yesteryear.  Both were average dmen that people thought were all-stars.

Alright, now I know that you're just joshing us.

Must be... I haven't taken a look at the stats but my feeling is Gunnar puts up at least 5 more minutes per game than Pilar did or was capable of.

If anything, I'd categorize him as closer to Robert Svhela...quiet and dependable, and you can call on him in most situations.

High praise. Haven't seen the upper end physical game nor the points by comparison but he's got a pretty solid all around game, hopefully you're right about him.

 

[maplesyrup]

Assuming Phaneuf is safe, Schenn does offer us the largest total combination of possible return AND cap relief I guess. Franson and Aulie are both restricted free agents and while neither will break the bank, they'll be getting noteworthy bumps on their current deals. I can see Burke listening on offers for Schenn for sure.

 

[Kaberle15]

Easy to say keep Gunar over Komi but what is this trade trying to accomplish?  If you are just trying to make room and dump the weakest link then yes trade Komi if you can, but usually trades don't just involve players we don't like going away.

disagree: See the pack for Phaneuf, Beauchemin for Lupul and Gardiner and Lombardi & Franson for Lebda.

So yes, Burke can move Komisarek and land a decent return without move any other Leafs D.

 

[Jalili]

Gunnarson

I think you gotta keep Gunnarson simply because he is a solid player who can eat a lot of minutes but isn't going to command a high salary simply because he isn't flashy in any particular area.  On a team where they have a huge payroll tied up on their D, having Gunnarson helps keep that somewhat in check.

Not true.  Jeff Finger wasn't flashy and that didn't stop a GM from overpaying for him. I think your blueline has to be physical, else it will be manhandled in the playoffs.  Gunnarson should go because he isn't physical and he doesn't have an offensive game like Gardner or Liles has.

Gunnarson is the most important d-man the Leafs have.  He makes any partner he plays with better, and he's cheap.  They can't afford to lose him.

I have no idea why Gunnarsson's name is being thrown around in the first place. Especially when we have guys like Schenn and Komisarek who are redundant and have limited skillsets in the first place.

And I have no idea why people have such a man-crush on Gunnarsson.  This reminds me of the Pilar man-crushes of yesteryear.  Both were average dmen that people thought were all-stars.

Gunnarsson's getting hype because, as of right now, he is far and away the best defensive D-man on the team.

 

[Tigger]

Easy to say keep Gunar over Komi but what is this trade trying to accomplish?  If you are just trying to make room and dump the weakest link then yes trade Komi if you can, but usually trades don't just involve players we don't like going away.

disagree: See the pack for Phaneuf, Beauchemin for Lupul and Gardiner and Lombardi & Franson for Lebda.

So yes, Burke can move Komisarek and land a decent return without move any other Leafs D.

Is Komi really akin to any of those situations though? Phaneuf was dealt for a variety of parts that don't resemble him, Beauchemin is a better price performance by far with a question mark around Lupul at the time and Lebda might not be much worse but was certainly cheaper.

A decent return for me would be future considerations but what do I know.

 

[Jalili]

And I have no idea why people have such a man-crush on Gunnarsson.  This reminds me of the Pilar man-crushes of yesteryear.  Both were average dmen that people thought were all-stars.

Alright, now I know that you're just joshing us.

Must be... I haven't taken a look at the stats but my feeling is Gunnar puts up at least 5 more minutes per game than Pilar did or was capable of.

If anything, I'd categorize him as closer to Robert Svhela...quiet and dependable, and you can call on him in most situations.

High praise. Haven't seen the upper end physical game nor the points by comparison but he's got a pretty solid all around game, hopefully you're right about him.

I agree. I see him as more of a quiet yet smart, cerebral kind of player. I can't think of a really good Leaf example but he reminds me a lot of Paul Martin back when he was with NJ, who before his big payday with Pittsburgh was one of the more underrated D-men around.

 

[Tigger]

I agree. I see him as more of a quiet yet smart, cerebral kind of player. I can't think of a really good Leaf example but he reminds me a lot of Paul Martin back when he was with NJ, who before his big payday with Pittsburgh was one of the more underrated D-men around.

He seems smart in his interviews, almost like he can barely hold back a grin and how silly he thinks it is generally. His game kind of reminds me of that, oddly.

 

[Corn Flake]

Giguere was a huge improvement over "I missed the bouncing puck" Toskala

Giguere wasn't a huge improvement over Toskala. They were both substandard starting goalies. The Leafs paid Giguere 6.5 million to be not very good, while the Ducks paid Blake 8 million or so to be not very good. Like I said, it's not a deal that anyone should be putting front and centre on their resumes.

Except Toskala was an arse and a miserable sod who wouldn't work with Allaire, and Giguere served as a good mentor and cheerleader for both Reimer and Monster and is now playing very well in Colorado.

Just having a solid veteran willing to take a back seat to two kids and help them any way he could (as Reimer and Monster have both said repeatedly he did) was worth a lot.

 

[Bullfrog]

And I have no idea why people have such a man-crush on Gunnarsson.  This reminds me of the Pilar man-crushes of yesteryear.  Both were average dmen that people thought were all-stars.

Alright, now I know that you're just joshing us.

Must be... I haven't taken a look at the stats but my feeling is Gunnar puts up at least 5 more minutes per game than Pilar did or was capable of.

It's almost like some of the Pilar love was exaggerated in jest.

 

[slapshot]

People are saying there is no way Komi's contract gets moved.
Depending on what the Leafs include: Kadri? Schenn? Potentially a 1st round pick (Burke has indicated he's not afraid to do that if he gets what he wants), then off-loading Komi's contract may not be so problematic, even the term is now reduced.
I wondering though if a guy like Ryan Suter might not be the target instead of a top six forward. Statistically, defence is still a bigger problem than offense as odd as that might seem.