WHOA - Mike Babcock OUT | Sheldon Keefe IN

[ZBBM]

So you're acknowledging that these incidents happened but you think the reporting of them is being exaggerated? What does that mean?

You'll have to answer those questions yourself, because that's not what I said.

What did you mean by this then:

Seems like there could be a herd mentality leading to some exaggeration here.

Exaggeration by the people spreading the stories.  Is anyone checking their veracity?  That's all I'm saying.  If they check out, then fine, all the hockey media has to answer for then is to explain why they didn't report them all along, since apparently his behavior was supposedly akin to almost an open secret.

And BTW just in case anyone is inclined to misread this, I am in no way defending the kind of behavior being attributed to Babcock right now.

The media did answer why they didn't report these things. You just didn't like their answer. Which is your prerogative and truth be told I agree with you. These media members didn't report the whole story because........ hockey. That doesn't make the stories any less true.

Darn right I didn't like their (really, her) answer, because it was as lame as you can get.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Cam Jansen was on First Up/TSN this morning talking about Babcock. He is usually an entertaining interview, and this one was pretty good.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/cam-janssen-on-if-babcock-crossed-the-line-with-marner-1.1403926

Enjoyed that interview. It's amazing how many players "hate" Babs. No wonder the Leafs look so happy.

 

[Arn]

I feel this is only the beginning...

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1199393878752813056

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

The sheer weight of the Babcock story that came out immediately after he's booted from the team honestly makes it all the more hilarious the ABSOLUTE BOMB that Simmons saved and dropped after Kessel was traded that he liked hot dogs.

 

[Chris]

The sheer weight of the Babcock story that came out immediately after he's booted from the team honestly makes it all the more hilarious the ABSOLUTE BOMB that Simmons saved and dropped after Kessel was traded that he liked hot dogs.

I know I complained about Kessel quite a bit during his last couple of years, but I still think his reply to that story - posting that photo of himself with the Stanley Cup full of hotdogs - was one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time.

 

[Kin]

You know, now that I've had some time to think about it I think more than any sort of "Babcock's a terrible jerk" thing to this I'm just sort of puzzled and disappointed.

Here you have a guy in Babcock who's widely regarded as being among the best in his profession, making a ton of money in a prominent job and who at least gave the impression of being a really thoughtful and considerate guy and behind the scenes he's playing mind games with 19 year olds and stubbornly refusing to adapt to the reality in front of him.

To bust out the classic dad line, I'm really just disappointed.

 

[princedpw]

You know, now that I've had some time to think about it I think more than any sort of "Babcock's a terrible jerk" thing to this I'm just sort of puzzled and disappointed.

Here you have a guy in Babcock who's widely regarded as being among the best in his profession, making a ton of money in a prominent job and who at least gave the impression of being a really thoughtful and considerate guy and behind the scenes he's playing mind games with 19 year olds and stubbornly refusing to adapt to the reality in front of him.

To bust out the classic dad line, I'm really just disappointed.

Can we be both disappointed and think he?s a jerk?

 

[Bender]

You know, now that I've had some time to think about it I think more than any sort of "Babcock's a terrible jerk" thing to this I'm just sort of puzzled and disappointed.

Here you have a guy in Babcock who's widely regarded as being among the best in his profession, making a ton of money in a prominent job and who at least gave the impression of being a really thoughtful and considerate guy and behind the scenes he's playing mind games with 19 year olds and stubbornly refusing to adapt to the reality in front of him.

To bust out the classic dad line, I'm really just disappointed.

I mean you could see it when Dubas had that freakout with Shanahan in the press box in OT that one game.

 

[Kin]

Can we be both disappointed and think he?s a jerk?

Sure, but as we're uncovering now it looks like the jerkiness is a feature rather than a bug among NHL coaches.

 

[herman]

You know, now that I've had some time to think about it I think more than any sort of "Babcock's a terrible jerk" thing to this I'm just sort of puzzled and disappointed.

Here you have a guy in Babcock who's widely regarded as being among the best in his profession, making a ton of money in a prominent job and who at least gave the impression of being a really thoughtful and considerate guy and behind the scenes he's playing mind games with 19 year olds and stubbornly refusing to adapt to the reality in front of him.

To bust out the classic dad line, I'm really just disappointed.

This gifted lineup (albeit flawed), almost every tool available to a hockey operation at his disposal, very pointed indications and clear discussions about what needs to be done going forward after another disappointing playoff loss... and Babcock chose to continue to undermine the team direction. Was he banking on his relationship with Tanenbaum and the paycheque? It's not like he wasn't capable of the job Keefe is currently doing tactically.

 

[Kin]

You know, now that I've had some time to think about it I think more than any sort of "Babcock's a terrible jerk" thing to this I'm just sort of puzzled and disappointed.

Here you have a guy in Babcock who's widely regarded as being among the best in his profession, making a ton of money in a prominent job and who at least gave the impression of being a really thoughtful and considerate guy and behind the scenes he's playing mind games with 19 year olds and stubbornly refusing to adapt to the reality in front of him.

To bust out the classic dad line, I'm really just disappointed.

This gifted lineup (albeit flawed), almost every tool available to a hockey operation at his disposal, very pointed indications and clear discussions about what needs to be done going forward after another disappointing playoff loss... and Babcock chose to continue to undermine the team direction. Was he banking on his relationship with Tanenbaum and the paycheque? It's not like he wasn't capable of the job Keefe is currently doing tactically.

Really, the only explanation that even makes sense to me is that he's a guy who had a lot of success in the past doing things a certain way, came here and had real success with it...and just couldn't change when his way was no longer yielding results.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

You know, now that I've had some time to think about it I think more than any sort of "Babcock's a terrible jerk" thing to this I'm just sort of puzzled and disappointed.

Here you have a guy in Babcock who's widely regarded as being among the best in his profession, making a ton of money in a prominent job and who at least gave the impression of being a really thoughtful and considerate guy and behind the scenes he's playing mind games with 19 year olds and stubbornly refusing to adapt to the reality in front of him.

To bust out the classic dad line, I'm really just disappointed.

I mean you could see it when Dubas had that freakout with Shanahan in the press box in OT that one game.

What happened between Dubas and Shanahan? I must have missed that one

 

[herman]

Really, the only explanation that even makes sense to me is that he's a guy who had a lot of success in the past doing things a certain way, came here and had real success with it...and just couldn't change when his way was no longer yielding results.

Yeah. But at the same time, you have front row seats to other ideas just across the practice pad that have demonstrated success.

Keefe?s moves so far have literally been just following through with Dubas and the support staff?s ideas that have been stonewalled until now.

 

[bustaheims]

Really, the only explanation that even makes sense to me is that he's a guy who had a lot of success in the past doing things a certain way, came here and had real success with it...and just couldn't change when his way was no longer yielding results.

Which, really, is what happens with a lot of coaches who have been in the league a long time, and have experienced a level of success similar to Babcock - especially when there have been fundamental shifts in how teams around the league approach the game. Babcock's system is very much defined by the way teams played 5-10 years ago, but the league has moved away from that style of play.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Which, really, is what happens with a lot of coaches who have been in the league a long time, and have experienced a level of success similar to Babcock - especially when there have been fundamental shifts in how teams around the league approach the game. Babcock's system is very much defined by the way teams played 5-10 years ago, but the league has moved away from that style of play.

I think perhaps you'd need to be more clear about the style of play that's been defined as successful. Looking at how the Leafs have been built this season, there's no template for success that they're modelled on, imo.

I sincerely believe that Babcock could take his current systems and apply it to many different teams around the league now and be very effective. But it would involve having a semblence of physicality around systems play that Dubas didn't provide players for Mike to coach. That's why we saw the constant complaining about Polak and Hainsey's icetime, same with Komorov, etc. They were the only players capable of playing a heavier game.

After the player changes in the offseason, Dubas surely must have known that Babcock wasn't going to have success with this group. I'm not sure that qualifies him as being a dinosaur.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/peterandri/status/1201512941301972993

Chelios on Spittin? Chiclets

https://twitter.com/iyer_prashanth/status/1201527251197542400

 

[Highlander]

Mean Ol' Mike

 

[Stebro]

Read an interview with retired red wing Johan Franzen, he said that Babcock was a well prepared coach but a horrible human being and a bully and you never knew whether he would be mean to someone cleaning the arena or anyone on the team. Franzen called him the worst person he's ever met.

Franzen is having a really tough time, with concussions, depression. Earlier I also read an article about him forgetting things about his family, and how hard that is for him.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Read an interview with retired red wing Johan Franzen, he said that Babcock was a well prepared coach but a horrible human being and a bully and you never knew whether he would be mean to someone cleaning the arena or anyone on the team. Franzen called him the worst person he's ever met.

Franzen is having a really tough time, with concussions, depression. Earlier I also read an article about him forgetting things about his family, and how hard that is for him.

https://twitter.com/SportExpressen/status/1201596098609065984

A google translate gives a rough idea of what Franzen's saying there. I also think it translates "hockey rink/arena" to "ice cream parlor" which is kinda funny.

 

[Zee]

Honest question, with this movement of holding NHL coaches and management to decency standards you'd expect in any workplace, is it possible nobody ever hires Babcock again?