Your summer 2012 strategy?

[L K]

One of my issues with Phaneuf is that I think he's a little too similar to McCabe.  A big difference I find though is that Quinn didnt constantly remind us that McCabe was a prolific scorer all the time.  I find that Burke/Nonis feel the need to prop up his accomplishments a little too much.  He's a strong top 4 defenseman who offensively is a top pairing guy but I think his defensive game really limits his long-term top end ability.  His contract is every bit as inflated as McCabe's was and I think if anything that I actually like McCabe defensive game a little more.  Phaneuf wanders way too much and doesn't play very physical in front of the net. 

I just don't see a big return coming the Leafs way in a trade.  We gave up quantity to acquire him and offense aside I think we only get middling return for him because of the contract.

 

[cw]

One of my issues with Phaneuf is that I think he's a little too similar to McCabe.  A big difference I find though is that Quinn didnt constantly remind us that McCabe was a prolific scorer all the time.  I find that Burke/Nonis feel the need to prop up his accomplishments a little too much.  He's a strong top 4 defenseman who offensively is a top pairing guy but I think his defensive game really limits his long-term top end ability.  His contract is every bit as inflated as McCabe's was and I think if anything that I actually like McCabe defensive game a little more.  Phaneuf wanders way too much and doesn't play very physical in front of the net. 

I just don't see a big return coming the Leafs way in a trade.  We gave up quantity to acquire him and offense aside I think we only get middling return for him because of the contract.

I feel similarly.

McCabe could make more gaffes trying to handle the puck in a cute way when he wasn't strong in those skills but he could cover his partner defensively. Leading the team in +/- when an arthritic Jyrki Lumme was his partner was somewhat remarkable. His best defensive play seemed to come when he had to cover for a partner who wasn't strong defensively - until his big contract went to his head.

Mentally, I don't think Phaneuf is as strong in his hockey sense. I also think McCabe was better at making the PP go and could get his shots through to the net more regularly. I think Phaneuf is stronger carrying the puck and has better mobility. And Phaneuf is obviously a more punishing hitter.

I rate them as pretty close but my preference between the two would be McCabe during his good years in Toronto.

As for trading Phaneuf, unless they take back some pretty large contract garbage, I have my doubts they could deal him because he's overpriced.

 

[sneakyray]

I am wondering if the new cba will allow for a free buyout this summer as I would love for the leafs to be able to just cut komi loose.  Then if they could miraculously find a taker for connelly that would be pretty awesome.

 

[cw]

I don't know how Burke can look at this team that he "still believed in" at the deadline and not feel completely betrayed by their performance since then.  Games like last night are very quickly changing my thoughts on how deep the changes to the veteran leadership needs to go. 

This team looks like it's completely shutting down and the lack of interest in competing is disturbing.  It points to the leaders who are setting a terrible example.  I'm sure Burke didn't think so a month ago but he has to now be considering a blow-up of the core.  You can't go to war next year with guys who checked out with 10 games to go.  I'm sure they want this year to just end, but giving up before it's over is a very telling sign of weakness that can't be part of the formula going forward.

Obviously, they're a mess. Some of it recently is Carlyle trying to get them to play "his" game. They're not really built for that - too soft for winning those puck battles from chip and chase.

It has to be kind of an insult to Burke who has been pretty fair with these guys. I suspect "gut the pig" keeps going over and over in his mind as he steams from the suite high up over the ice and "how many of these soft losers can we get on a charter out of town?" And then the reality of the contracts, the lousy UFA market, the constriction of the CBA and the pressure to get to the playoffs settles in.

 

[maplesyrup]

As for trading Phaneuf, unless they take back some pretty large contract garbage, I have my doubts they could deal him because he's overpriced.

I keep thinking a Phaneuf/Stastny deal could work out well for both teams. I realize the Leafs would need to add to the deal, perhaps even one of our top prospects but maybe there's something there.

 

[Peter D.]

As for trading Phaneuf, unless they take back some pretty large contract garbage, I have my doubts they could deal him because he's overpriced.

Who knows what the CBA is going to look like, but I can see a team desperately looking to get to the cap floor (ie. Florida last year) take on Phaneuf.  Depending how far away that team is from the floor, we may not have to take an almost equal amount back -- if the Leafs have to take back a $4M salary, it's still a savings of $2.5M.

But you're absolutely right, any deal involving Phaneuf would not be a pure hockey deal.

 

[cw]

As for trading Phaneuf, unless they take back some pretty large contract garbage, I have my doubts they could deal him because he's overpriced.

I keep thinking a Phaneuf/Stastny deal could work out well for both teams. I realize the Leafs would need to add to the deal, perhaps even one of our top prospects but maybe there's something there.

That's an interesting suggestion because it gives both teams something back that they need. But with the Avs near the cap floor with lots of dough to spend and the difficulty finding centers, I wonder if the Avs wouldn't be better off getting a UFA PP dman (ie Suter, Carle, Souray, Corvo, Wideman, etc). They might have to over pay but probably nothing like what Dion would cost them (in talent and dollars).

I think the Leafs would have to send some 'special' young talent along with Phaneuf to make that sort of deal happen unless the Avs GM suddenly got stupid.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The Avs paid a pretty hefty price last season for Eric Johnson, who is pretty similar to Phaneuf in play. They also have two pretty good offensive defencemen who will probably be ready to make the jump to the NHL next season in Tyson Barrie and Stefan Elliott. I'm not really sure I'd classify Phaneuf as someone they need right now.

However I could see them being interested in Schenn, and I've always though defensive defencemen typically look better in the West than in the East so that could be a nice fit there. Wouldn't be enough for Stastny though of course.

 

[skrackle]

I don't know how Burke can look at this team that he "still believed in" at the deadline and not feel completely betrayed by their performance since then.  Games like last night are very quickly changing my thoughts on how deep the changes to the veteran leadership needs to go. 

This team looks like it's completely shutting down and the lack of interest in competing is disturbing.  It points to the leaders who are setting a terrible example.  I'm sure Burke didn't think so a month ago but he has to now be considering a blow-up of the core.  You can't go to war next year with guys who checked out with 10 games to go.  I'm sure they want this year to just end, but giving up before it's over is a very telling sign of weakness that can't be part of the formula going forward.

Obviously, they're a mess. Some of it recently is Carlyle trying to get them to play "his" game. They're not really built for that - too soft for winning those puck battles from chip and chase.

It has to be kind of an insult to Burke who has been pretty fair with these guys. I suspect "gut the pig" keeps going over and over in his mind as he steams from the suite high up over the ice and "how many of these soft losers can we get on a charter out of town?" And then the reality of the contracts, the lousy UFA market, the constriction of the CBA and the pressure to get to the playoffs settles in.

Burke's biggest task this summer might be figuring out who the players to keep going forward should be. I can't recall seeing the Leafs in this particular state of disarray in some time, if ever, so it won't be an easy job sorting that out. It would be very interesting to hear the year-end conversation between Burke and Carlyle.

I think the team is going to be just as bad, if not worse next year and maybe a few years after. I also think that Burke, if he's still GM, will have to put emotion and ego aside and let the team bottom out-maybe to uncharted depths. Give James Cameron a run for his money.

Burke, being the guy he is, may feel the need to try and fix everything this off season. I hope he resists the temptation. For now, he's got to own the failure of his plan for the Leafs so far. Then he has to acquire top end young talent to go with what the the Leafs already have in the pipeline. The brain-trust surely should be able to identify at least one or two elite players that the Leafs will likely be eligible to draft over the next few seasons. I'd also rather not hear about any 1st round picks that any of the scrubs on the current roster could have been traded for.

If Burke is getting grief from ownership about how bad the team is and how long the Leafs have been out of the playoffs, he should in no uncertain terms, tell them to shut up and let him do his job. Burke does know hockey and they don't.

The immediate to mid-term future of the Leafs should not be led by someone looking for ego gratification. I'm really interested to see if Burke can eat some humble pie and do what needs to be done.

 

[Kin]

If Burke is getting grief from ownership about how bad the team is and how long the Leafs have been out of the playoffs, he should in no uncertain terms, tell them to shut up and let him do his job. Burke does know hockey and they don't.

If I'm Brian Burke and I have the record he does as GM of the Leafs and I have any sense of humility there aren't a ton of people in the world I'm telling to shut up because of how much I know about hockey. Certainly not the people who employ me to get results.

 

[Knobby]

Burke is not going anywhere. He will make some significant moves at the draft.

 

[Jerrybutler]

Five things that must happen in offseason:

No. 1 - Put Connolly on waivers... then send him down to minors. We did this with Finger. We're doing it again with Connolly. Burke must admit his mistake. He needs to go to save 4.5 mil in cap space.

No. 2 - Trade MacArthur for draft pick. Basically salary dump. Acquire 3 mil or so in cap space.

No. 3 - Trade for goaltender and legit centre. Burke must be creative here. He must get a legit veteran netminder who can PUSH Reimer. He must also find a centre who can play in top six. The Connolly experiment did not work. This time, Burke must hit on a centre who can play in Carlyle's system.

No. 4 - Let the kids play. Colbourne, Kadri, Ashton and Frattin all need to be with this team next season. End of story. Burke needs to understand where this team is and realize that his assessment of FA's have not been very good thus far as GM.

No. 5 - Draft centre. There are several players in top 10 who can play the position. That's a must.

I agree with it all,  I might even trade up from 5 to get a real impact player C or Wing.  I would add a number 6 which is that ...Phaneuf has to go.  Anyway possible.  Jumping B. Schenn was the last straw for me.  Shows what a horrible teammate he is to do that at that point of the game.  I am a Toronto native that currently lives in a small town (less than 1000 pp) outside of NYC.  One former NHL player and HOFer lives here as does the family of a current NHLer and former Leaf.  This former Leaf is around quite a bit in the summer.  He played for a period with Phaneuf in Toronto for a period and said he was a jerk and that it would be a major issues for the Leafs going forward.  He said no top end UFA would ever go there with Phaneuf in the room.  I dismissed this as sour grapes as I hated the playing style of the of the former Leaf and was head over heels about the Phaneuf trade.  But in hindsight I think this guy was totally right.  I now believe that a lot of this collapse can be directly attributed to Phaneuf and how much of a bully he is and how much he is disliked in the room.  I say:

1) Get ride of Phaneuf even if he need to be bought out
2) Waive Connelly, Armdog, Lombardi
3) Stop with the Steckles and the Crabbs and the rest of the junk
4) Let the kids play
5) First pick needs to be major impact player even if we need to trade up
6) Trade Komi to a salary cap floor team  - even though it will require "sweetening the pot" with a prospect
7) Find a real Goalie.  This will be hardest of all.  Stop with all the undrafted UFAs like Monster, Rynnas, Scrivens and invest to bring a real NHL goalie onto the Team.  Reimer if healthy can be #2.  Team will settle right down with quality veteren goaltending.

Young Team with good goaltending that will probably miss the playoffs again but I think we have a great base to grow from.  Right now we have too many players that will never make it.

 

[skrackle]

If Burke is getting grief from ownership about how bad the team is and how long the Leafs have been out of the playoffs, he should in no uncertain terms, tell them to shut up and let him do his job. Burke does know hockey and they don't.

If I'm Brian Burke and I have the record he does as GM of the Leafs and I have any sense of humility there aren't a ton of people in the world I'm telling to shut up because of how much I know about hockey. Certainly not the people who employ me to get results.

Well, I guess that's what I wish he would do. I imagine an awakening, perhaps a rude one, being delivered to ownership not to expect any playoffs, much less a contending team until a rebuild has been properly completed.

However, as it's likely that Burke sold MLSE on yet another quick-fix plan, that's just my frustration showing.

I had great hope that Burke was going to be able to set realistic expectations with ownership and with fans as he started from scratch with the Leafs. That is, until he started with the "July 1st is our draft day" stuff. He's done some good things, but so did JFJ.

Burke's been pretty quiet lately. I'm more interested in what he does than in what he says, but that end of the year press conference should be worth listening to. 

 

[Jerrybutler]

If Burke is getting grief from ownership about how bad the team is and how long the Leafs have been out of the playoffs, he should in no uncertain terms, tell them to shut up and let him do his job. Burke does know hockey and they don't.

If I'm Brian Burke and I have the record he does as GM of the Leafs and I have any sense of humility there aren't a ton of people in the world I'm telling to shut up because of how much I know about hockey. Certainly not the people who employ me to get results.

Well, I guess that's what I wish he would do. I imagine an awakening, perhaps a rude one, being delivered to ownership not to expect any playoffs, much less a contending team until a rebuild has been properly completed.

However, as it's likely that Burke sold MLSE on yet another quick-fix plan, that's just my frustration showing.

I had great hope that Burke was going to be able to set realistic expectations with ownership and with fans as he started from scratch with the Leafs. That is, until he started with the "July 1st is our draft day" stuff. He's done some good things, but so did JFJ.

Burke's been pretty quiet lately. I'm more interested in what he does than in what he says, but that end of the year press conference should be worth listening to.

Personally I would have Burke and the gang of thousands in the Front Office on a very very short leash.  If he doesn't like it he is free to go.  His first few years here have been very substandard and I think this stupid rules (no back-loads, false trading deadlines etc put the Leafs at a disadvantage.  We need a GM who will do anything possible to improve this team.  BB has not earned the right to play by his own rules IMO

 

[rdowdall]

If Burke is getting grief from ownership about how bad the team is and how long the Leafs have been out of the playoffs, he should in no uncertain terms, tell them to shut up and let him do his job. Burke does know hockey and they don't.

If I'm Brian Burke and I have the record he does as GM of the Leafs and I have any sense of humility there aren't a ton of people in the world I'm telling to shut up because of how much I know about hockey. Certainly not the people who employ me to get results.

Well, I guess that's what I wish he would do. I imagine an awakening, perhaps a rude one, being delivered to ownership not to expect any playoffs, much less a contending team until a rebuild has been properly completed.

However, as it's likely that Burke sold MLSE on yet another quick-fix plan, that's just my frustration showing.

I had great hope that Burke was going to be able to set realistic expectations with ownership and with fans as he started from scratch with the Leafs. That is, until he started with the "July 1st is our draft day" stuff. He's done some good things, but so did JFJ.

Burke's been pretty quiet lately. I'm more interested in what he does than in what he says, but that end of the year press conference should be worth listening to.

Personally I would have Burke and the gang of thousands in the Front Office on a very very short leash.  If he doesn't like it he is free to go.  His first few years here have been very substandard and I think this stupid rules (no back-loads, false trading deadlines etc put the Leafs at a disadvantage.  We need a GM who will do anything possible to improve this team.  BB has not earned the right to play by his own rules IMO

How does having non hockey people running the show help this situation?  This is a mess, and telling people "You better not make anymore mistakes or you are gone" is probably not going to help.  Also telling people how to do their job, when you are not a GM is not going to help either.  Sather went through something similar in New York.  He got lucky and found a goalie that could single handedly get a team in to the playoffs.  My biggest thing is Burke needs to listen to his own mantra's.  He said "We build our teams from the net out."  It's time for him to build this team from the net out.  He needs a goalie.  No more of this "We have faith in so n' so."  The time for faith is over.  The Leafs need to be able to say "This goalie is a bona fide #1 goalie that can steal games.  Our goalie is a difference maker."  They need to start their and move forward.  At this point firing Burke wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if for no other reason than it brings in a fresh approach.  However, if Burke is fired, we can all expect the next couple of years to be just as lean as these ones as there is still nothing in terms of a foundation block within the organization.

 

[princedpw]

A lot of people seem to be rushing a bit to buy out (eg: Komisarek) or waive players (eg: Connolly, Lombardi, Armstrong) or even rid ourselves of these players by trading them with a draft pick to some other team.  I think pursuing any of those actions should only be a very last resort --- we are not quite yet in a position where we need to such actions. 

I especially hate the buyout because it has such a long term impact -- we are still paying for Tucker!!  For example, if it were the case that we were able to sign Suter or Parise and the only way to acquire the cap space to put them on our roster was to buy out Komisarek then I would most definitely buy him out, no question.  But let's wait until we actually acquire Suter or Parise before taking the drastic step!  If we don't get one of those top-end guys (an unlikely possibility), then there just isn't a lot of talent out there on the UFA market to get -- not a lot of ways to spend those UFA dollars we might free up by buying out Komi, for example.  Moreover, unless dramatically better options are presented, I would much rather have Komisarek sit on the bench next year and fill in as a 6/7 defenseman when injuries strike than buy him out and see that buyout stretch for 4 years -- having an impact 4 years down the line when we might be competitive and might really want that cap space.  Let's also wait until we see what the new CBA is like -- maybe there will be a free buyout. Who knows?  Anyway, it is way too early to talk about buyouts.

In terms of sending guys down or trading a guy with a draft pick just to be rid of him -- let's be a little more patient there too.  The great thing about Connolly's contract and the reason that we paid him so much was to limit him to 2 years.  Unless a beneficial trade arises, let's keep those guys, pay out most of their salary and then trade them at next year's trade deadline.  Lot's of teams will want them then -- there will be no future encumbrance on the receiving team and they will get a 3rd-line guy for their playoff run. 

All of Connolly, Lombardi, Armstrong are still relatively young. Undoubtedly, they all want another contract after their current one.  Let's consider having a little patience and not ridding ourselves of them at their absolute lowest possible point.  Maybe playing in a contract year will amp up their motivation.  Individually:

*Lombardi had an entire year off with a brutal concussion and many didn't even think he would play at all this year when we got him.  It makes sense that he would not be at his best.  There is some chance he'll regain his form as the solid, speedy 2-way forward that garnered a 3.5 million dollar contract.  Let's roll the dice and see what happens (unless someone gives us a nice offer for him -- a draft pick or a prospect perhaps).

* Armstrong had very little injury history before toronto, was a strong defensive forward, seems well-liked and scored at about .5 points per game.  He was a good 3rd-liner that was a sought-after UFA.  Yes, everyone thought he was overpaid at the time of his contract but the Leafs will have paid 2/3rds of that money this summer and 5/6ths of that money by the time the trade deadline rolls around next year.  The fact that he's been injured the entire time he has been in Toronto is really just bad luck.  It doesn't mean he's always going to be injured going forward.  Again, we can hope that he works out hard in the summer, doesn't get further significant injuries, rounds back in to form and is inspired in a contract year.  But sure, if he is outplayed by rookies coming up during training camp, then send him to the minors if no favorable trades can be made this summer.  Don't bother to buy him out, send him down to the minors early or sell him off if it means we include a draft pick to do so.

* Connolly does some things well, though far from 4.5million/year well:  He is the 6th-leading scorer amongst forwards.  He kills penalties and is adequate defensively.  He has not had much chemistry with the rest of our top-6 forwards and seems to play as well with Joey Crabbe as he does with Grabbo or Kessel.  Again, I say roll the dice -- let's hope he's inspired by a contract year or let's hope some other team wants to take a shot at him for 1 year because there are ZERO useful centers that are UFAs this year as far as I know.  Burke did a good thing by paying high but limiting his contract to 2 years.  Connolly's contract will be up in summer 2013 when Getzlaf is a UFA.  That's not a coincidence.

So it's not that I'm thrilled with how these players have turned out, it is just that I think we should look to take these lemons and do our best to turn them in to lemonade that we can sell at next year's trade deadline.  I think that is preferable to turning them in to acid that will melt our faces off for the next few years as buyouts or by turning them in to negative assets and trading them with prospects/picks to other teams.

 

[Tigger]

I pretty much agree with all that prince, leave worrying about cap dollars until the moment arises ( they won't be stuck, the cap will go up before it goes down and they'll be allowed 10% over while they figure it out if they need it ).

 

[bustaheims]

For me, it's not about cap space - as, outside of Parise, Suter and Semin, there's not much of interest out there on the market this summer - but, rather about turning over a roster that clearly needs some work. I wouldn't be giving up assets to move any of these guys either, and, realistically, other than Komisarek, the Leafs wouldn't have to, and I wouldn't be buying out anyone for the same reasons you mentioned - it's just not worth the long-term cost, as none of these guys are standing in the way of the piece that will put the team over the top. That being said, were an opportunity to come up that would see some of these guys being moved out without much or anything of value in return and without anything of value going with them, I'd probably be inclined to take it, if for no other reason than it opens up a roster spot for some new blood - whether that be a prospect already in the organization or a player brought in from outside the organization.

 

[maplesyrup]

For me, it's not about cap space - as, outside of Parise, Suter and Semin, there's not much of interest out there on the market this summer - but, rather about turning over a roster that clearly needs some work. I wouldn't be giving up assets to move any of these guys either, and, realistically, other than Komisarek, the Leafs wouldn't have to, and I wouldn't be buying out anyone for the same reasons you mentioned - it's just not worth the long-term cost, as none of these guys are standing in the way of the piece that will put the team over the top. That being said, were an opportunity to come up that would see some of these guys being moved out without much or anything of value in return and without anything of value going with them, I'd probably be inclined to take it, if for no other reason than it opens up a roster spot for some new blood - whether that be a prospect already in the organization or a player brought in from outside the organization.

Nothing to add other than. "Yup!"

 

[bustaheims]

For me, it's not about cap space - as, outside of Parise, Suter and Semin, there's not much of interest out there on the market this summer - but, rather about turning over a roster that clearly needs some work. I wouldn't be giving up assets to move any of these guys either, and, realistically, other than Komisarek, the Leafs wouldn't have to, and I wouldn't be buying out anyone for the same reasons you mentioned - it's just not worth the long-term cost, as none of these guys are standing in the way of the piece that will put the team over the top. That being said, were an opportunity to come up that would see some of these guys being moved out without much or anything of value in return and without anything of value going with them, I'd probably be inclined to take it, if for no other reason than it opens up a roster spot for some new blood - whether that be a prospect already in the organization or a player brought in from outside the organization.

Nothing to add other than. "Yup!"

I suppose I should probably add that if guys like Armstrong, Connolly, Lombardi etc are still with team next season, that's also fine. They'll be in the last year of their contracts, and if they have decent seasons, they could be valuable at the trade deadline. And, if not, oh well, then they walk in the summer without any leaving the team with any lasting cap implications.  There's no real pressing need to do anything about most of the players people bring up, and most of the suggestions being offered to more damage than doing nothing and letting them play out their contracts.