Your summer 2012 strategy?
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Mikhail Bloodnovsky
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bustaheims said:
Is the status quo a better alternative then?
maplesyrup
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bustaheims said:
It's not just picks or who could be signed via UFA though. A big part of it is roster flexibility and potentially freeing up some room for Colborne or Ashtons or Kadri. Who knows - maybe a sleeper like Ross could wiggle in? Also, while you may not like mid/late first rounders, perhaps there a few guys other teams really have their sights on this June... Perhaps more so than MacArthur or Kulemin.
maplesyrup
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Saint Nik said:
Yes we are entirely sure... Burke himself identified the 4 guys he was offered 1sts for. - One was a conditional 1st.
Kin
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Zee said:
Well, leaving aside that I'm not one to take the things out of Burke's mouth as gospel the more important thing there is who those picks were for. If we're talking Mac, Gus or Connolly it's an entirely different conversation than if it's Grabo, Gunnar or Schenn.
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not asking whether or not we're sure Burke said he was offered four first rounders. I'm asking if we have any idea what those trades would have actually looked like.
Heroic Shrimp
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Saint Nik said:
Not only do we not know anything about those picks, but I've heard nothing that says either way as to whether those offers were for one, two, three or four different players. For all we know, four different teams offered a first round pick for Grabovski, and that would still jive with what Burke actually said.
Heroic Shrimp
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Sarge said:
I don't recall that. Does anybody have a quote?
pnjunction
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I have a tough time deciding whether I'd unload Schenn for a 1st or not. On one hand he's young and could get it together, on the other hand I'm beyond sick of a 3.6M guy who sets the tone of so many games with horrendous giveaways on his 1st shift.
If he doesn't get it together the remaining years on that contract could he hard to unload, we could end up desperate just to unload them for nothing like Komi's.
If he doesn't get it together the remaining years on that contract could he hard to unload, we could end up desperate just to unload them for nothing like Komi's.
GhostofPotvin29
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Did he say they were all first round picks for this upcoming draft?
maplesyrup
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Heroic Shrimp said:
I don't have it but I'm 100% sure on this. - I'm 90% that the conditional pick was for Mac while two of the other players we were offered 1sts for were Grabs and Kulemin. The 4th was either Reimer or Schenn... I don't recall.
Kin
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bustaheims said:
I don't necessarily disagree but, honestly, I really don't think you can base a ton on the perception of the draft as a whole. Scouts are dodgy enough in their evaluation of one player, so trying to peg the collective value of an entire round of the draft vs. years past doesn't really strike me as something to put a ton of stock into.
bustaheims
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Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Sure, but, as I pointed out when this discussion happened shortly after the trade deadline, trading up into the upper stratosphere of the draft is nigh impossible, regardless of what assets you have in your quiver - especially in today's league, where price performance is vitally important.
bustaheims
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Saint Nik said:
Maybe not, but, when it's a virtually unanimous opinion that the talent level essentially falls off a cliff after the first 10-12 guys, I'm not exactly left in awe of the potential of the guys likely to be drafted in the 20s - certainly not to the point where I'd deal off assets with reasonable term remaining on their contracts, and especially not with the barren free agent market we'll see this summer. Many of the guys who were not dealt at the deadline will have similar (or possibly greater) value in the summer for teams looking to improve and not feeling there are UFAs that are available (or affordable) to help them. Burke can very likely pick up more tangible assets for guys like MacArthur in the summer (prospects, young players, etc), package them for upgrades or, at the very least, pick up equivalent picks in the 2013 draft.
bustaheims
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Sarge said:
The most specific thing I recall Burke saying was that he had a solid offer for Reimer, whatever that means. He also said he could have "traded the entire second line for 1st rounders," which was likely hyperbole on his part.
maplesyrup
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bustaheims said:
There may have been another quote from Burke with more specifics but I believe the offers were substantiated elsewhere too. Dreger? Bobby Mac? - I don't remember but like I said, I'm fairly certain the only guy mentioned who we did not get a frim offer for a 1st was MacArthur (who we got a conditional 1st offer for.) Does anyone else remember this?
bustaheims
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Sarge said:
As a general rule of thumb, anything that comes from outside the organization (or from an unnamed source) has to be viewed with a fair amount of skepticism, regardless of who it's from - it still has a high probability of being inaccurate, while anything that comes directly from the organization on this type of subject has to be taken with a pinch of salt, so to speak, as it's likely painted with hyperbole or an agenda.
Zee
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The problem is, Burke does nothing at the deadline, then fires Wilson that week and brings in Carlyle. Maybe he was hoping that Carlyle would suddenly turn the same roster around and make them play great, but that hasn't happened. Now he faces the prospect of trading / cutting players who Carlyle can't work with, and starting again with new players and seeing if Carlyle can do something with the new team.
Had part of the players leaving been MacArthur, Grabovski and Kulemin as has been speculated, how bad would that have been considering all 3 disappeared during the long losing streak, Grabovski included? Instead we reward Grabovski with a 5 year, $5.5M deal.
Who knows the specifics of the deals, but if he had been able to stock-pile 4 first round picks, in addition to the Leafs own pick that would be 5 in the first round, they MIGHT have been able to make a trade in the summer for a #1 center. Maybe Bozak can then become the #2 center where he might a better fit than he currently is, and replace the departed Grabovski at a much cheaper price. We'll never know now.
Had part of the players leaving been MacArthur, Grabovski and Kulemin as has been speculated, how bad would that have been considering all 3 disappeared during the long losing streak, Grabovski included? Instead we reward Grabovski with a 5 year, $5.5M deal.
Who knows the specifics of the deals, but if he had been able to stock-pile 4 first round picks, in addition to the Leafs own pick that would be 5 in the first round, they MIGHT have been able to make a trade in the summer for a #1 center. Maybe Bozak can then become the #2 center where he might a better fit than he currently is, and replace the departed Grabovski at a much cheaper price. We'll never know now.