2011-2012 NHL Thread

[groundskeeper willie]

Duchene straight up for Columbus' #2 might work for both teams... It' the type of deal that might keep Nash there.  :-\

The BJ's would probably make that trade, but would Colorado? The 2nd overall, in my limited opinion, is probably overpayment for Duchene right now after the year he just had, but the Avalanche are probably looking for guys that can play right now if they move him to match their current core, not guys that might take at least 3 years to really add to the team.

 

[Erndog]

According to one Avs fan it would cost "KESSEL AND GARDINER AT LEAST"

Gotta love em

 

[bustaheims]

I do Gardiner for Duchene in a heart beat.

I'd be a little hesitant about it until I had a better grasp of what made Duchene so bad this season.

 

[Kin]

The BJ's would probably make that trade, but would Colorado? The 2nd overall, in my limited opinion, is probably overpayment for Duchene right now after the year he just had, but the Avalanche are probably looking for guys that can play right now if they move him to match their current core, not guys that might take at least 3 years to really add to the team.

I don't think that's a particularly realistic sense of what sort of immediate value there is at #2 in the draft. Post-lockout Van Riemsdyk is the only top 2 pick that didn't make a significant contribution to their team within a year or two.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

According to one Avs fan it would cost "KESSEL AND GARDINER AT LEAST"

Gotta love em

But how do the Leafs make that trade and get Schneider? We've been told it'll be at least Gardiner and the 5th pick to get him.

Don't make us choose only one of those fantastic trades.

 

[Kin]

I do Gardiner for Duchene in a heart beat.

I'd be a little hesitant about it until I had a better grasp of what made Duchene so bad this season.

Well, alright, provided there's nothing medically wrong with him and he's not secretly hooked on opium.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

The BJ's would probably make that trade, but would Colorado? The 2nd overall, in my limited opinion, is probably overpayment for Duchene right now after the year he just had, but the Avalanche are probably looking for guys that can play right now if they move him to match their current core, not guys that might take at least 3 years to really add to the team.

I don't think that's a particularly realistic sense of what sort of immediate value there is at #2 in the draft. Post-lockout Van Riemsdyk is the only top 2 pick that didn't make a significant contribution to their team within a year or two.

I haven't scouted the players to be drafted this year, but the impression I've gotten is that the top group are likely to take a bit more time to reach their potential than previous years where there were more players that were ready to go immediately.

The only guy I have heard will be ready for the NHL next year is Yakubov (and maybe Grigorenko). That is quite a bit different than the last few years. Maybe what I've heard is wrong though.

 

[Kin]

I haven't scouted the players to be drafted this year, but the impression I've gotten is that the top group are likely to take a bit more time to reach their potential than previous years where there were more players that were ready to go immediately.

There have been a few drafts in recent years that people weren't high on either. For the most part though, the guys who go #1 or #2 make near immediate contributions.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

I haven't scouted the players to be drafted this year, but the impression I've gotten is that the top group are likely to take a bit more time to reach their potential than previous years where there were more players that were ready to go immediately.

There have been a few drafts in recent years that people weren't high on either. For the most part though, the guys who go #1 or #2 make near immediate contributions.

Most drafts have had more than one elite guy though. Stamkos/Doughty, Tavares/Hedman, Hall/Seguin and then there was the rest. This year it is Yakubov and the rest.

 

[Kin]

Most drafts have had more than one elite guy though. Stamkos/Doughty, Tavares/Hedman, Hall/Seguin and then there was the rest. This year it is Yakubov and the rest.

That's sort of looking at things pretty purely in hindsight. Even still, there are still guys like Staal and Landeskog who made immediate impacts without being thought of as elite talents in their draft years.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

Most drafts have had more than one elite guy though. Stamkos/Doughty, Tavares/Hedman, Hall/Seguin and then there was the rest. This year it is Yakubov and the rest.

That's sort of looking at things pretty purely in hindsight. Even still, there are still guys like Staal and Landeskog who made immediate impacts without being thought of as elite talents in their draft years.

In their draft years those were the guys in contention for being picked first overall. Certain guys were likely to go #1, but there were some legitimate questions. That's not happening this year.

Sure, somebody else may make an impact in the NHL next year. I'm not expecting it though, especially for whoever the Leafs draft. Personally, I hope whoever the Leafs draft has at least 1 or 2 years before their rookie year (unless it's Yakubov).

 

[Jalili]

Yeah, right. Duchene the 3rd overall pick who had 67 points as a 19/20 year old might not be any better than Bozak. Good one.

If you think that Toronto (or any team) wouldn`t have to pay up the ass to get Duchene, then I don`t know what else to tell ya.

You don't need to tell me anything else but you should try listening.

Not better than Bozak isn't what I was implying.. point was if Duchene doesn't bounce back from a HORRIBLE season, he's no better than what we got from Bozak. Actually, he's worse.  sorry if you haven't bothered to watch any Avs games this year or check his stats but it's a reality - he was terrible this year, benched multiple times.

Who gives a rip where he was picked in 2009.  It doesn't matter anymore.  He's a high end talent who took a huge step back this year.  I'm not trading another high end talent who hasn't done anything other than take massive leaps forward for that guy AND my 5th overall pick for what could amount to no better than what we have today.

Sunk in yet?

Tell me more. Duchene might not be any better than Bozak? Please. When I bring up where he was drafted, it`s about his track record, because it`s not as if he had one fluke season and has come back down to earth. Duchene has been considered a future star talent since he was 15, and was already pretty close to being there as a teenage sophomore. 

One bad season isn`t going to make me think: man, I wonder will that guy ever be as good again as Tyler Bozak? The only thing that has sunk in is that despite your condescension you don`t know as much as you think you do.

 

[Corn Flake]

I do Gardiner for Duchene in a heart beat.

I'd be a little hesitant about it until I had a better grasp of what made Duchene so bad this season.

It wasn't just an injury issue either.  The guy ended up in the coach's doghouse for a bunch of games and saw his ice time cut huge as well.. .. same coach he had his 67 point breakout season under.  It could just be confidence and that O'Reilley stole his job, but it could be a lot more than that.

I get the talent level, which is why I want the guy, but IMO the risk is a lot higher on the Leafs end of a Duchene for Gardiner swap. 

 

[Kin]

In their draft years those were the guys in contention for being picked first overall. Certain guys were likely to go #1, but there were some legitimate questions. That's not happening this year.

Well, I don't think that's even vaguely true about last year. There was not a lot of talk that Landeskog would go over RNH.

Either way, the point stands. The idea that a player picked with the #2 pick would "probably take at least 3 years" does not match up well with what we've seen.

 

[bustaheims]

TSNBobMcKenzie: Brent Sutter and CGY part company, as per team release.

mirtle: "Flames announced today that Brent Sutter and the organization have reached a mutual agreement to conclude coaching duties."

mirtle: Flames GM Jay Feaster: "Brent and I explored many options and ultimately determined that it is best to proceed in different directions."

mirtle: Brent Sutter: "After discussions with Jay since the season ended, it was in the best interest of the organization and myself to part ways."

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

I do Gardiner for Duchene in a heart beat.

I'd be a little hesitant about it until I had a better grasp of what made Duchene so bad this season.

Well, alright, provided there's nothing medically wrong with him and he's not secretly hooked on opium.

Giving a new meaning to the Mile High City?

 

[Andy007]

I'd definitely be interested in a Duchene acquistion but really don't want to see that #5 pick moved. Any chance Bozak+Schenn+lottery protected 1st gets it done?

 

[maplesyrup]

I'd definitely be interested in a Duchene acquistion but really don't want to see that #5 pick moved. Any chance Bozak+Schenn+lottery protected 1st gets it done?

I would think the Avs would want more potential than anything in that package. The #5 pick could offer that. 

 

[bustaheims]

Let's be honest here, though - for what Colorado will need in return to move Duchene, even coming off of the disaster of a season he just had, we're likely talking about a one step forward, two steps back scenario for the Leafs, and that's precisely the type of move they need to avoid.

 

[maplesyrup]

Personally, I wouldn't consider #5 and a roster player not named Gardiner or Kessel a step back let alone two. Even if I had to sweeten the pot with a mid-level prospect, it's a deal I make - instantly.

Edit: Though I suppose busta, if you think the price would be significantly higher than that, I'd agree.