2011 Blue Jays/MLB Thread

[Kin]

Well, with Lawrie up starting at 3B, Bautista moves back into the outfield and Thames moves to LF.

Right, and Snider would be kept up as a 4th outfielder/DH against righthanders. Having Davis in the role doesn't do much outside of pinch running situations which aren't important enough to keep a better player in the minors.

Davis stays on the bench. And, as for Thames being a worse defensive player, he's an even dWAR player this season, whereas Snider is -0.6, and Thames has better range factor numbers as well, so, the numbers don't support your assertion there.

Not actually true. Thames RF/9 in left is 1.69 while Snider's is 1.87. Not that RF is a great stat to begin with.

 

[bustaheims]

Right, and Snider would be kept up as a 4th outfielder/DH against righthanders. Having Davis in the role doesn't do much outside of pinch running situations which are pretty miniscule.

Except that Davis won't be in the DH role against righties - Encarnacion will still be there and likely still would have had that role with Snider on the team. Snider as a pure 4th outfielder doesn't do anyone any good.

Not actually true. Thames RF/9 in left is 1.69 while Snider's is 1.87. Not that RF is a great stat to begin with.

Well, if you want to use Thames 5 games in LF as evidence, sure, but, I was looking at his overall defensive numbers, which largely favour him over Snider.

 

[Kin]

Except that Davis won't be in the DH role against righties - Encarnacion will still be there and likely still would have had that role with Snider on the team. Snider as a pure 4th outfielder doesn't do anyone any good.

But that's sort of what I mean. I think it's more valuable for the team if Snider is getting those at-bats and seeing if his struggles can be minimized by having him focusing on hitting right handed pitching. Encarnacion is OPSing .747 against RHP this year so it's not like the team's losing a ton there either.

Well, if you want to use Thames 5 games in LF as evidence, sure, but, I was looking at his overall defensive numbers, which largely favour him over Snider.

Well, I figured LF numbers probably worked better as to who covers more ground in Left. If you want to say small sample size then that's fine but I think most would agree Snider's the faster outfielder with the better arm.

 

[bustaheims]

But that's sort of what I mean. I think it's more valuable for the team if Snider is getting those at-bats and seeing if his struggles can be minimized by having him focusing on hitting right handed pitching. Encarnacion is OPSing .747 against RHP this year so it's not like the team's losing a ton there either.

No, but it's also a prime reason why Snider is likely spend more time on the bench than he would in the line-up, especially with his recent struggles. Whether or not you feel it would be more valuable is sort of irrelevant when contrasted with what would likely happen. I'd agree it would probably be more valuable as well, but, being that I don't see it working out that way, it's better for him and the organization to have him in AAA.

Well, I figured LF numbers probably worked better as to who covers more ground in Left. If you want to say small sample size then that's fine but I think most would agree Snider's the faster outfielder with the better arm.

Honestly, right now, I'd say it's probably a push when it comes to who is the better defensive player. Snider has the better arm and slightly better speed, but, I feel like Thames reads the ball off the bat a little better and takes better routes to the ball. Either way, the defensive difference is pretty marginal right now.

 

[Kin]

No, but it's also a prime reason why Snider is likely spend more time on the bench than he would in the line-up, especially with his recent struggles. Whether or not you feel it would be more valuable is sort of irrelevant when contrasted with what would likely happen. I'd agree it would probably be more valuable as well, but, being that I don't see it working out that way, it's better for him and the organization to have him in AAA.

I don't think the organization gets to insulate themselves from their dopeyness regarding Snider because, if they kept him up, they'd act even dopier.

He'll go down to AAA, mash the hell out of the ball again and we'll be no further along then we were before. If a "rebuilding" of his swing was going to happen it should have happened the first time that nonsense was trotted out. Not now when  the Jays don't have better options and he's actually hit pretty well in his call-up.

Honestly, right now, I'd say it's probably a push when it comes to who is the better defensive player. Snider has the better arm and slightly better speed, but, I feel like Thames reads the ball off the bat a little better and takes better routes to the ball. Either way, the defensive difference is pretty marginal right now.

I can't agree, as I think Thames has been pretty shaky. Either way, I'd still rather give the AB's to the better prospect and let him run with it.

 

[dappleganger]

Yeah, there should definitely be other players getting the yank before Snider. He's proved he can hit minor league pitching. Keep him in the bigs and teach him how to make the adjustments to the big league pitchers.

Comes a time when you sink or swim. I'd give Snider the chance at least.

Except that he hasn't been making adjustments to big league pitchers. In fact, it's quite the opposite - once he starts to struggle, he falls back into the patterns that allow him to be successful in the minors but are easily and frequently exploited in the majors while showing little to no signs of being able to turn it around. I have to believe that they've tried to work with him as much as possible at the MLB level with MLB coaches, and, well, we've all seen the results - nothing has changed for the better. From the looks of things, either he can't learn at the MLB level or he won't learn at the MLB level. I mean, he's had 200 plate appearances this season, roughly the equivalent of 1/3 of what the average MLB player will get - it's not like he's only been given a week or two. Since he came back from the minors, he's actually putting the ball in play less than he did before he went down. I mean, at this point, I'd really be hard-pressed to say he's learned anything this season at any level, and he's just not producing anywhere close to enough to justify keeping him in the line-up with the rate he's getting struck out.

Sure, there comes a time to see if a player will sink or swim, and, well, right now, Snider is sinking and sinking fast.

Sometimes I feel guys just have to kick it, so to speak, and I was hoping our coaches with the Jays would be able to help him.

 

[maplesyrup]

Nice little hit and RBI for Lawrie in his first MLB at bat.

 

[maplesyrup]

... followed by an error  :

 

[Derk]

Now Rasmus with an RBI. Liking this.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

2-4 now.  Should've had another RBI really, but runner was thrown out at home.

 

[Kin]

Great googly moogly, how many outs is this team going to run into? I don't know if it's Farrell or what but someone needs to tell someone on this team that getting thrown out is a bad thing.

 

[maplesyrup]

Are people just afraid to tell Rauch he stinks?

 

[hockeyfan1]

Total meltdown by Morrow and the Jays last night.  6-2 Baltimore.  Liking that Lawrie guy, though, and Rasmus is still impressing at bat.  Several errors by the Jays cost them. 

 

[maplesyrup]

Yeah. Through 5 Morrow was sick. Too bad we had to play 9.

 

[donkeyy0]

Total meltdown by Morrow and the Jays last night.  6-2 Baltimore.  Liking that Lawrie guy, though, and Rasmus is still impressing at bat.  Several errors by the Jays cost them.

Meh. He had like 93 pitches through 7.2 innings. 3 of the 4 first runs were all unearned. Then I think the next few were bc of a Hill error (didn't watch that far into the game).

Guy had a perfect game through 5, and if Yunuel doesn't blow that double play ball...who knows.

Two key defensive miscues led to Morrow's meltdown. The guy needs to learn damage control though. Ya he SHOULD have got out of the inning with the dp, but instead he gives up a homerun...

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Total meltdown by Morrow and the Jays last night.  6-2 Baltimore.  Liking that Lawrie guy, though, and Rasmus is still impressing at bat.  Several errors by the Jays cost them.

Meh. He had like 93 pitches through 7.2 innings. 3 of the 4 first runs were all unearned. Then I think the next few were bc of a Hill error (didn't watch that far into the game).

Guy had a perfect game through 5, and if Yunuel doesn't blow that double play ball...who knows.

Two key defensive miscues led to Morrow's meltdown. The guy needs to learn damage control though. Ya he SHOULD have got out of the inning with the dp, but instead he gives up a homerun...

Not really a big thing, but the Orioles announcers were saying on that DP ball to Escobar, there was no way they would turn 2 with the guy who hit it running.

 

[Damian]

that assumes he would catch that routine ball tho....

 

[draeko17]

Brett Lawrie with his first big league homerun, 5th hit of the series, Jays up 6 - 1 in the six, Romero with another solid game.

 

[donkeyy0]

that assumes he would catch that routine ball tho....

Ya, I'm pretty sure Morrow got 1 out after the E anyways. Even getting the force out at 2nd would have allowed them to get out of the inning.

Either way...whatever. It's over. They're gonna win the series anyways. A sweep would've been nice. But Morrow pitched very well up to that point, unhittable.

It's frustrating how good he looked that game to have him just collapse after 1 play doesn't go his way.

 

[maplesyrup]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2011/08/08/jays_alvarez_jays/

I'm excited to see Alvarez. I hear can just smoke 'em.