2013 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[Andy007]

Worth noting Romero's 2011 Spring Training ERA was 7.91 and he went on to have a 2.92 ERA in the regular season?

No, not worth noting at all, imo. Romero has a 6 era last year and couldn't throw a strike. He has not just been destroyed this ST, but he still can't throw strikes and his velocity is down. A single A team knocked him around in 2 and 1/3 innings, where he walked 5. He is a complete mess right now; it's nothing like 2011 ST (where he was coming off a season with a sub 4 era).

It's too late, I already noted it.

No one said one can't note it, just that it wasn't worth noting

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

It's Spring Training. It means just about as much as pre-season hockey. I really don't care how badly he got shelled today.

Exactly, which was the point of my post.  He got knocked around in that pre-season, too.  What happened last season no longer really matters, it is what happens come the start of the season.

 

[Andy007]

It's Spring Training. It means just about as much as pre-season hockey. I really don't care how badly he got shelled today.

Exactly, which was the point of my post.  He got knocked around in that pre-season, too.  What happened last season no longer really matters, it is what happens come the start of the season.

It's all about context though. As I already said, him getting knocked around in 2011 is meaningless because he had a great previous year and there were no additional concerns. This spring training he can't throw strikes, which dates back to his disastrous secondhalf last year where he couldn't throw strikes. His velocity is also at 87. These are legitimate concerns. Spring Training is basically useless except for rare occasions like this. Brett Cecil agrees too.

 

[maplesyrup]

Yeah, I mean on the surface, this just appears REALLY bad.  :-\

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

But the context doesn't include him working out different mechanical things this spring?  It still doesn't matter if he starts the season in the bigs and does fine.

 

[maplesyrup]

But the context doesn't include him working out different mechanical things this spring?  It still doesn't matter if he starts the season in the bigs and does fine.

... and if he doesn't? It's just not something I'd wager wins and loses on right now based on his struggles. Keep him down and let him prove he's better than Happ (which he just isn't right now.)

 

[bustaheims]

... and if he doesn't? It's just not something I'd wager wins and loses on right now based on his struggles. Keep him down and let him prove he's better than Happ (which he just isn't right now.)

If he doesn't, it's the same as if he had a really great spring training - what he did before the games started to matter doesn't matter.  He doesn't need to start in the minors. He's proven enough that he's earned the chance to get another shot at showing he's capable of performing at the big league level.

 

[maplesyrup]

He's proven enough that he's earned the chance to get another shot at showing he's capable of performing at the big league level.

Yes. He has. But like I said, I'm not sure I'd be prepared to let him prove it in games that count.

 

[bustaheims]

Yes. He has. But like I said, I'm not sure I'd be prepared to let him prove it in games that count.

Well, at this point, if you're not willing to take that risk, you really should cut ties with him completely. He's proven more than Happ and he deserves the the first crack at MLB batters.

 

[maplesyrup]

Yes. He has. But like I said, I'm not sure I'd be prepared to let him prove it in games that count.

Well, at this point, if you're not willing to take that risk, you really should cut ties with him completely. He's proven more than Happ and he deserves the the first crack at MLB batters.

No. You don't have to cut ties just yet. We didn't with Halladay when he was a disaster.

 

[bustaheims]

No. You don't have to cut ties just yet. We didn't with Halladay when he was a disaster.

Yeah, but that was in Halladay's 2nd season in the bigs and at 23 years old. He hadn't earned anything yet. Romero's well past that point.

 

[maplesyrup]

No. You don't have to cut ties just yet. We didn't with Halladay when he was a disaster.

Yeah, but that was in Halladay's 2nd season in the bigs and at 23 years old. He hadn't earned anything yet. Romero's well past that point.

Well, I'm not sure I'd fill out my staff on warm fuzzies about what they were like two seasons ago. In my opinion, you just HAVE to go with the best guys if you can and right now, it's Happ by a cavernous margin. There simply isn't any harm in letting Ricky sort himself out in A (or higher if warranted.) - "Feelings" aside of course.

 

[bustaheims]

Well, I'm not sure I'd fill out my staff on warm fuzzies about what they were like two seasons ago. In my opinion, you just HAVE to go with the best guys if you can and right now, it's Happ by a cavernous margin. There simply isn't any harm in letting Ricky sort himself out in A (or higher if warranted.) - "Feelings" aside of course.

It has nothing to do with feelings, it has to do with going with the guy with the better track record and higher ceiling and giving him the opportunity to succeed rather than assuming he's already a failure. Spring Training is meaningless - even this late in the game. He could still have been working on things and cutting back on the velocity on purpose. We know what Happ can do - and that's being a perfectly adequate 5th starter. We also know Romero can be much more than that. The team can't assume he's broken until he shows you, when things matter, that he is. If 3 or 4 less than ideal starts from Romero is enough to keep this team out of the playoffs, then this team doesn't deserve to make the playoffs.

 

[maplesyrup]

Well, it's clear we have a different and philosophy here. I think Romero has shown us enough over the last year that he is rather broken. He's been a great player and deserves respect but I at this point, I think he should have to earn his spot. 

 

[Kin]

So we're freaking out about spring training performances then?

It's going to be a long, long year.

 

[maplesyrup]

So we're freaking out about spring training performances then?

It's going to be a long, long year.

If they weren't followed by a an atrocious season then I would agree. Freaking out would be pointless but as Andy points out, there's legitimate cause for concern here.

 

[Kin]

So we're freaking out about spring training performances then?

It's going to be a long, long year.

If they weren't followed by a an atrocious season then I would agree. Freaking out would be pointless but as Andy points out, there's legitimate cause for concern here.

Last year, before going on to what we all remember as a terrible season, Ricky had a 0.00 ERA in spring training with a 0.36 WHIP. The legitimate cause for concern is that he stunk last season, not meaningless spring training numbers.

 

[Andy007]

So we're freaking out about spring training performances then?

It's going to be a long, long year.

If they weren't followed by a an atrocious season then I would agree. Freaking out would be pointless but as Andy points out, there's legitimate cause for concern here.

Last year, before going on to what we all remember as a terrible season, Ricky had a 0.00 ERA in spring training with a 0.36 WHIP. The legitimate cause for concern is that he stunk last season, not meaningless spring training numbers.

Actually his first half (or slightly less) was great. Then he developed major problems that are plauging him even now in Spring Training. Both are legitimate reasons for concern; the main point being how much he stunk last season. (Which, I think, is kinda what Sarge and I were arguing).

 

[maplesyrup]

Yup.

 

[Kin]

Actually his first half (or slightly less) was great.

Not really. He was good in April but his ERA was over 4.00 every other month. Anyways, I don't think anyone would argue that Romero's performance last year isn't a reason to be concerned about how he'll pitch this year, just that spring training performance doesn't really tell us much of anything.