2013 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[TML fan]

This isn't something that's going to go away overnight. I would not be letting Romero work his stuff out in the majors when you're trying to sell your fans on a winning mindset.

 

[Kin]

And for what it's worth, his struggles last year are overstated a bit. He got pretty unlucky with a .315 OBABIP. xFIP has him better by almost a full run. Not good, obviously, but most projections have him with a better than 4.50 ERA which, I think, is something you can live with from a starter in a worst case scenario.

 

[Andy007]

And for what it's worth, his struggles last year are overstated a bit. He got pretty unlucky with a .315 OBABIP. xFIP has him better by almost a full run. Not good, obviously, but most projections have him with a better than 4.50 ERA which, I think, is something you can live with from a starter in a worst case scenario.

There were three months were his era was over 7, two of them over 8. That was after his great first month and decent second month of the season. If he can maintain a 4.50 era then sure, that's not bad for a 5th starter, but a 4.50era is pretty lofty aspirations for someone who was pitching near a 7 era after the first two months of last season and who appears to have lost complete control of his mechanics.

 

[Kin]

There were three months were his era was over 7, two of them over 8. That was after his great first month and decent second month of the season.

Yeah, but the opposition BABIP in those months were .307, .349 and .472. That's not sustainable. Especially at the end. His August was just as good as his May so it's hard to say that it was something that went wrong and stayed wrong.

But, again, I'm not saying he pitched well last year. Just that A) it wasn't as bad as the conventional stats have it and B) I'm going to wait until he's pitching against batters in actual ball games before I reach any conclusions. When all of the projections have him at that 4.50 mark, I think it's a good bet to take no matter what happens in the spring.

 

[Peter D.]

Add me to the group that thinks Romero should be sent down to minors to get things straight and have Happ start the season as the 5th starter.

I get that this is spring training, which is a time to work out kinks and try new things, but there are serious concerns here.  He is not pitching well in the games he has thrown in.  It is suggested that his knees are giving him problems (something that will never go away) and his elbow may still be giving him problems.  I've read his velocity is down as low as 87 (that's Brett Cecil territory).  Today it was reported by J-P Morosi on The Fan that he even had trouble locating the strike zone in a simple bullpen session.  Some are using Halladay as an example -- Morosi threw out Dontrelle Willis.

Based on his history and who he is within the organization, if the team wants to start with Romero, I'm okay with it.  But I'd have him on a really short leash.  Really short.  I've thought to give him all of April, but that may be generous.  In a year when the team is "all in", and playing in the always competitive AL East, the team cannot afford to piss away games while Romero attempts to work things through.   

 

[maplesyrup]

Beautifully put, Peter.

 

[Champ Kind]

I know mental blocks happen and there's little anyone can do to predict or stop them.  But looking back to the genesis of this for RR, it really baffles me.  I mean, he was 8-1 to start the year last year, and was pitching really, really well until June.  Then, suddenly, BOOM!  The wheels just fall off for him.

I agree with you, too, Peter.  He needs to take things slow and get back to where he needs to be.  I'm sure the ability is still there, but keeping him with the team - and all the expectation and pressure that is part of the 2013 season - won't do anyone any good.

 

[TML fan]

I know mental blocks happen and there's little anyone can do to predict or stop them.  But looking back to the genesis of this for RR, it really baffles me.  I mean, he was 8-1 to start the year last year, and was pitching really, really well until June.  Then, suddenly, BOOM!  The wheels just fall off for him.

I agree with you, too, Peter.  He needs to take things slow and get back to where he needs to be.  I'm sure the ability is still there, but keeping him with the team - and all the expectation and pressure that is part of the 2013 season - won't do anyone any good.

This is more than just a mental block. It's a physical problem. His mechanics are all out of whack and have been since he hurt himself, what I would imagine is very early last season.

 

[Kin]

I know mental blocks happen and there's little anyone can do to predict or stop them.  But looking back to the genesis of this for RR, it really baffles me.  I mean, he was 8-1 to start the year last year, and was pitching really, really well until June.  Then, suddenly, BOOM!  The wheels just fall off for him.

He was 8-1 because the team was leading the league in runs scored. He pitched poorly in May and June, despite having a 5-1 record in those two months.

But again, some of it was bad luck, some of it was a bad defense behind him.

 

[Kin]

Add me to the group that thinks Romero should be sent down to minors to get things straight and have Happ start the season as the 5th starter.

I get that this is spring training, which is a time to work out kinks and try new things, but there are serious concerns here.  He is not pitching well in the games he has thrown in.  It is suggested that his knees are giving him problems (something that will never go away) and his elbow may still be giving him problems.  I've read his velocity is down as low as 87 (that's Brett Cecil territory).  Today it was reported by J-P Morosi on The Fan that he even had trouble locating the strike zone in a simple bullpen session.  Some are using Halladay as an example -- Morosi threw out Dontrelle Willis.

See, to me, this is why so much of the panicking and freaking out don't make sense. Is it a health issue? Who's suggesting that Romero has these physical problems? Because having elbow trouble, having knee problems(and since when can knee problems not go away?) that's not a "send him down to the minors to work on his stuff" issue. That's a "diagnose and treat it issue". Right now people are just throwing out random ideas as to why Romero wasn't good last year and hoping it sticks.

Based on his history and who he is within the organization, if the team wants to start with Romero, I'm okay with it.  But I'd have him on a really short leash.  Really short.  I've thought to give him all of April, but that may be generous.  In a year when the team is "all in", and playing in the always competitive AL East, the team cannot afford to piss away games while Romero attempts to work things through. 

It's just as easy to say that the team can't afford to piss away games by starting JA Happ, whose last two full season ERAs are 5.35 and 4.79 while mainly pitching in the National League, who hitters are hitting .321 against in Spring Training.

Again, I don't think anyone is suggesting that if Romero can't get guys out in the big leagues that he shouldn't be part of the ongoing evaluation process that any pitching staff entails. Just that spring training results aren't the basis for that.

 

[Corn Flake]

Romero today:

Allowed three runs, two earned, in 4 1/3 innings against the Pirates. He allowed six hits and three walks while striking out two before being removed with the Blue Jays leading 4-3 in the fifth to lower his Grapefruit League earned-run average to 6.23. Romero threw 75 pitches, with 44 strikes.

Romero threw 10 strikes in 13 first-inning pitches, allowing two hits and a run.
gave up a 4 pitch walk to start the 2nd, then retired the next 3.
two walks and a single to start the 3rd
he gave up a double in the 4th to the Pirates pitcher. 

If it's progress, it's baby steps forward.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Morrow has a higher spring ERA.

Spring!

 

[Deebo]

@ShiDavidi

#BlueJays option Ricky Romero to Dunedin

That's A-ball btw

 

[maplesyrup]

Good. Exactly what I hoped they'd do.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

@LottOnBaseball 4m

AA says decision made after game today in discussion with Gibbons, Pete Walker, AGM Tony LaCava. Aftrer discussion, decision "unanimous."

I'll defer to their judgment having been able to actually watch him closely, so hopefully this is the best for all parties.

 

[Kin]

So the answer is the guy who's been flat-out terrible the last two years pitching in an easy division in an easier league?

 

[TML fan]

So the answer is the guy who's been flat-out terrible the last two years pitching in an easy division in an easier league?

It has nothing to do with Happ, but with how awful Romero has become.

 

[Kin]

It has nothing to do with Happ, but with how awful Romero has become.

Well, it should have something to do with Happ if the idea is that they can't afford to give Romero starts in real baseball games because every game is so crucially important.

 

[TML fan]

It has nothing to do with Happ, but with how awful Romero has become.

Well, it should have something to do with Happ if the idea is that they can't afford to give Romero starts in real baseball games because every game is so crucially important.

No, it's about fixing the physical problems with Romero, which the Jays don't want him doing at the major league level.

 

[Kin]

No, it's about fixing the physical problems with Romero, which the Jays don't want him doing at the major league level.

When you say physical, do you mean mechanical? Or do you mean he's hurt?