2019-2020 NHL Thread

[Bullfrog]

Ya, it was a hard check, but completely legal. It wasn't punishable by the rules or by any stupid moral code.

 

[Bates]

The first Tkachuk hit could have easily been charging penalty, a few strides to deliver  a violent hit to a vulnerable opponent should be punished every time. You would not have to worry about retaliation if you called the person who actually made the dangerous play. But Tkachuk assumes this kind of play is perfectly ok as the Officials let him do it every night. It also sure looks like a head shot but I have only seen it from one angle??

 

[bustaheims]

What rule did Tkachuk's hit break? Excluding something like charging, which is broad enough to virtually include any big hit, the commentators doing the game last night didn't even put forth the idea that it should have received two minutes.

Charging or boarding, maybe, but I don?t think it would warrant more than a minor penalty.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I forgot about this, but a reminder than Shawn Thornton was suspended 15 games for a somewhat similar incident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YzJLNn97Dc

That was of course back when Shanny was properly handing out suspensions. Imagine how much safer the league would be if the people who replaced Shanny kept the standards he was setting?

 

[Frank E]

I think Tkachuk's hit was a blindside hit...the kind the league is trying to eradicate.  I don't blame Kassian for responding to it, but I also think Kassian beating the hell out of a guy that isn't fighting back should have got him 5 and the game.

 

[Kin]

Charging or boarding, maybe, but I don?t think it would warrant more than a minor penalty.

Sure but like I said by the virtue of the way the rule's written "Charging, maybe" applies to any big hit. I'm open to the idea that Kassian having his head down and being vulnerable should make this an infraction but if that's the standard the league probably has to codify that somewhere.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think Tkachuk's hit was a blindside hit...the kind the league is trying to eradicate.

Yeah I don't like it. Tkachuk is like Marchand and Wilson, they hit to hurt. They're just super tough hits to discipline when there aren't other factors like an elbow or head contact.

 

[Hobbes]

I think Tkachuk's hit was a blindside hit...the kind the league is trying to eradicate.

Yeah I don't like it. Tkachuk is like Marchand and Wilson, they hit to hurt. They're just super tough hits to discipline when there aren't other factors like an elbow or head contact.

I bet it will suddenly become a bit easier for the league to police when someone has their L4 snapped and either dies or is paralyzed for life by one of these "legal" hits.

Back in the days when the charging rule was written, players moved so much more slowly and of course there was some measure of deterrent from the assorted goons. I don't really see how predatory hits like this are any less dangerous than deliberate knee-on-knee collisions, and are only marginally less risky than headshots. If a player is unsuspecting, the result can be catastrophic. I'd like some sort of change to the definition of charging...something that takes into account the awareness of the "victim" of the impending hit, and perhaps something relating to the players' speeds relative to one another. No matter how prepared you are for it, being hit by 200+ pounds at 25+ kph is not something the body is designed to withstand.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Legal or not, Tkachuk was running around like an idiot and targetting players. While maybe the beating wasn't warranted, it's not really shocking.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Not sure where to post this, but it's worth posting:

https://twitter.com/NHLhistorygirl/status/1216128488081629185?s=19

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I think Tkachuk's hit was a blindside hit...the kind the league is trying to eradicate.

Yeah I don't like it. Tkachuk is like Marchand and Wilson, they hit to hurt. They're just super tough hits to discipline when there aren't other factors like an elbow or head contact.

Agreed. I've seen that sort of devastating hit a number of times when a player is being hit with momentum while being engaged with the defender coming around the other side of the net, and it's one of the most dangerous forms of charging, in my opinion - and according to rule 42, could be a major through to a suspension.

I'm somewhat surprised at the general acceptance on it in the thread, and wondering if it's perhaps due to the player involved.

If it helps, perhaps imagine Nylander in a heap on the ice after taking the same hit from Tkachuk. Still cool with it?

 

[Bates]

I think Tkachuk's hit was a blindside hit...the kind the league is trying to eradicate.

Yeah I don't like it. Tkachuk is like Marchand and Wilson, they hit to hurt. They're just super tough hits to discipline when there aren't other factors like an elbow or head contact.

every video I have seen of the first Tkachuk hit seems to show him hitting Kassian in the side of the neck/head with contact.

 

[Kin]

Agreed. I've seen that sort of devastating hit a number of times when a player is being hit with momentum while being engaged with the defender coming around the other side of the net, and it's one of the most dangerous forms of charging, in my opinion - and according to rule 42, could be a major through to a suspension.

I'm somewhat surprised at the general acceptance on it in the thread, and wondering if it's perhaps due to the player involved.

If it helps, perhaps imagine Nylander in a heap on the ice after taking the same hit from Tkachuk. Still cool with it?

It's not a question of being cool with it, it's a question of whether or not this hit specifically is against any actual rules the NHL has. If the best people can come up with is charging then, quite frankly, the answer is no. Charging is a vague rule whose definition could make any hit illegal. Selectively applying vague rules doesn't appeal to me regardless of who it is getting hit.

But, again,  that's not endorsing the hit. I'm fine with the NHL making a hit like this illegal according to an objective or clearly defined rule. They'd just have to detail what it is specifically Tkachuk isn't allowed to do.

But again, have at it. I just don't think that's an easy task without effectively taking hitting out of the game.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

every video I have seen of the first Tkachuk hit seems to show him hitting Kassian in the side of the neck/head with contact.

Yeah the first one had head contract, but I meant to say it wasn't suspendable head contact. By the NHL rule it would have been deemed unavoidable head contact because Kassian put himself in a "vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable" (i.e he was slumped over). That's not a rule that I like but it's what the league uses.

 

[Bates]

every video I have seen of the first Tkachuk hit seems to show him hitting Kassian in the side of the neck/head with contact.

Yeah the first one had head contract, but not suspendable head contact. By the NHL rule it would have been deemed unavoidable head contact because Kassian put himself in a "vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable" (i.e he was slumped over). That's not a rule that I like but it's what the league uses.

My point is that if the refs call the 1st hit it's possible the rest might not happen. I have no issue with refs doing the job of stopping hits that have no purpose other than trying to inflict pain on the other player. And wouldn't avoiding the head be even easier when the head is not above the body as you deliver a check with your hip?

 

[Guilt Trip]

every video I have seen of the first Tkachuk hit seems to show him hitting Kassian in the side of the neck/head with contact.

Yeah the first one had head contract, but not suspendable head contact. By the NHL rule it would have been deemed unavoidable head contact because Kassian put himself in a "vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable" (i.e he was slumped over). That's not a rule that I like but it's what the league uses.

My point is that if the refs call the 1st hit it's possible the rest might not happen. I have no issue with refs doing the job of stopping hits that have no purpose other than trying to inflict pain on the other player. And wouldn't avoiding the head be even easier when the head is not above the body as you deliver a check with your hip?

Players are trying to inflict pain. Mike Johnson said so on Leafs Lunch today. He said he wasn't a malicious player but when he went to hit a guy, he wasn't thinking I'm going to seperate the puck from this guy, I want to give him a bruise kind of thing.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

My point is that if the refs call the 1st hit it's possible the rest might not happen.

But call what? I'm not sure it was a charge. He didn't jump into the hit and he only traveled from the middle of the circle to the goal line which doesn't seem that excessive to me. If you call that a charge then probably more than half the hits in the game are charges. I also explained why I don't think it would be a head contact penalty. I agree if anyone says those are the types of hits we want to get out of the game, I just maintain that I don't think there's anything in the current rule book that penalizes them.

 

[Guilt Trip]

My point is that if the refs call the 1st hit it's possible the rest might not happen.

But call what? I'm not sure it was a charge. He didn't jump into the hit and he only traveled from the middle of the circle to the goal line which doesn't seem that excessive to me. If you call that a charge then probably more than half the hits in the game are charges. I also explained why I don't think it would be a head contact penalty. I agree if anyone says those are the types of hits we want to get out of the game, I just maintain that I don't think there's anything in the current rule book that penalizes them.

Bobby Mac says there's nothing in the rule book against those hits. They were all deemed legal.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

And wouldn't avoiding the head be even easier when the head is not above the body as you deliver a check with your hip?

I don't know where you're going with this. If a player is slouched over and his head is on the same level as an opposing players hips then head contact is more unavoidable than if the player was standing upright.

 

[Hobbes]

And wouldn't avoiding the head be even easier when the head is not above the body as you deliver a check with your hip?

I don't know where you're going with this. If a player is slouched over and his head is on the same level as an opposing players hips then head contact is more unavoidable than if the player was standing upright.

Or if you're Trevor Moore standing on straight up while being checked by Zdeno Chara...

That sort of hit happens all the time and I don't see anything about it that makes it stand out from dozens of other similar hits over the past year or two. I'd like to see them out of the game, but as it stands now it's a perfectly legal hit.

Even the response was pretty typical of many big-yet-legal hit in recent years...gloves get dropped, whoever delivered the hit gets to defend himself against someone, and 5 minutes later it's back to business. If the "offender" turtles, though, you're supposed to stop trying to kill him, chirp the hell out of him for the foreseeable future, and call him out in the post-game media scrum as a gutless wimp.