2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
- Thread starter herman
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ZBBM
Active member
herman said:
His discussion of Ceci is pure BS.
The acquisition of Thornton is a nice feelgood story, and it maybe it'll work out. But we tried this with Marleau (and BTW he brought all the same intangibles Dubas is citing as reasons to get Jumbo into the dressing room ... I thought these guys were supposed to have absorbed all that already from Patty?) and we saw how effective he was at the end of his time here. Luckily it's only a 1-year risk at bottom dollar for a 3C/4C so it's worth a gamble. I for one will be keeping my expectations modest.
BrownRolo
New member
princedpw said:
I think this is such a great idea. Tavares has the history of playing very well with less than players. Seems to bring them up a level. That 3rd line looks pretty great to me.
So instead of going with 1A and 1B lines have Matthews line 1 and then 2A and 2B lines. Hope they do this.
herman
Well-known member
Re: Ceci
Just because you don't agree with the sentiment does not make it BS. Our eyes really only tend to remember goals, exacerbated by highlight reels when we miss watching games. So for a defensive defenseman, you only remember mistakes.
The following thread is linked in situ; the first half of the long thread is about Ceci's career up to the Leafs trade and how he appeared in the model, accurately as an over-his-head scapegoat. When he finished out his season with the Leafs, the defensive impacts show up even though quality of competition and usage largely stayed high, and partnered significantly with a defensive-liability in Rielly.
https://twitter.com/ineffectivemath/status/1317889256577269760
Just because you don't agree with the sentiment does not make it BS. Our eyes really only tend to remember goals, exacerbated by highlight reels when we miss watching games. So for a defensive defenseman, you only remember mistakes.
The following thread is linked in situ; the first half of the long thread is about Ceci's career up to the Leafs trade and how he appeared in the model, accurately as an over-his-head scapegoat. When he finished out his season with the Leafs, the defensive impacts show up even though quality of competition and usage largely stayed high, and partnered significantly with a defensive-liability in Rielly.
https://twitter.com/ineffectivemath/status/1317889256577269760
herman
Well-known member
As for why Dubas would even bother talking about Ceci: it was a specific question brought up by a reporter that wasn't Simmons.
Treating former players respectfully is just good HR and PR. Dubas' words and actions are constantly evaluated, not just by us, but by his current players and future players to come. They see a manager who tries to use every resource to position his players to succeed, treats them fairly in negotiation, and emphasizes their positives in public. This costs Dubas almost nothing, but is valuable down the road when a vet or rebounding player is looking for a place to rebuild on a show-me deal.
Compare and contrast to Vegas who have pivoted from plucky castoffs who work harder together to a ruthless mercenary outfit because a couple of really sexy players came within reach.
Treating former players respectfully is just good HR and PR. Dubas' words and actions are constantly evaluated, not just by us, but by his current players and future players to come. They see a manager who tries to use every resource to position his players to succeed, treats them fairly in negotiation, and emphasizes their positives in public. This costs Dubas almost nothing, but is valuable down the road when a vet or rebounding player is looking for a place to rebuild on a show-me deal.
Compare and contrast to Vegas who have pivoted from plucky castoffs who work harder together to a ruthless mercenary outfit because a couple of really sexy players came within reach.
I mean the Leafs needed a 3C and they signed the best one available on the market to a league minimum deal. That's the story. They didn't sign him to sell jerseys or to fix the locker room.
Frank E
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:
I really don't understand anyone that thinks this was a bad signing...it's the very lowest dollar you can pay a player, on the very shortest term you could do a deal at.
There could not be less risk attached.
Who was the alternative centre that was a better player that would sign for 1 year at league minimum that Dubas shunned?
ZBBM
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:
Dubas went out of his way to emphasize his impact in the locker room. Which I'm sure is true. What I was saying is that they said the same thing about Marleau ? which was true ? so the question is, how many times does the core of the team need to have gudpro Playoff Hocket success modeled for them? At some point they need to go out and do it. Matthews did this summer.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
He also went out of his way to call Ceci a good defenceman, which you called BS in the post as the Thornton stuff. Maybe sometimes, like all GMs, he just tells the press what they want to hear for soundbites.
And I'm not saying that his "intangibles" aren't a nice little bonus, it's just not the primary reason he was brought in.
herman
Well-known member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said::Oh please. Models schmodels. Dubas was in no rush to re-sign him, you'll notice. He was awful.
Just because he didn't fit the organizational needs doesn't make him 'awful'. He's an awful puck handler but Toronto mitigated it reasonably well. The market yielded some better ones; pretty sure if Bogo was a no go, we'd see Ceci again.