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2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

Spezza's got a higher goal/assist ratio. He can be the trigger man.

Reminds me of a live Oilers game I saw about 10 years ago. Hemsky had a penalty shot and this heckler in front of me was screaming "who you gonna pass it to now, bro!?"
 
https://twitter.com/PR_NHL/status/1317210486149177345
Three decades. Three 1st-overall Picks.
1997/2009/2016
 
It would be fun to consider this kind of configuration for dominating 3rd lines:

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Mikheyev
Robertson-Thornton-Nylander
Whoever-Spezza-Simmonds (Very slow, doesn?t play much at 5-on-5)
 
herman said:
https://twitter.com/leafsnews/status/1317932001240977409
Click to expand...

His discussion of Ceci is pure BS.

The acquisition of Thornton is a nice feelgood story, and it maybe it'll work out.  But we tried this with Marleau (and BTW he brought all the same intangibles Dubas is citing as reasons to get Jumbo into the dressing room ...  I thought these guys were supposed to have absorbed all that already from Patty?) and we saw how effective he was at the end of his time here.  Luckily it's only a 1-year risk at bottom dollar for a 3C/4C so it's worth a gamble.  I for one will be keeping my expectations modest.



 
princedpw said:
It would be fun to consider this kind of configuration for dominating 3rd lines:

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Mikheyev
Robertson-Thornton-Nylander
Whoever-Spezza-Simmonds (Very slow, doesn?t play much at 5-on-5)
Click to expand...

I think this is such a great idea. Tavares has the history of playing very well with less than players. Seems to bring them up a level. That 3rd line looks pretty great to me.

So instead of going with 1A and 1B lines have Matthews line 1 and then 2A and 2B lines. Hope they do this.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
herman said:
https://twitter.com/leafsnews/status/1317932001240977409
Click to expand...

His discussion of Ceci is pure BS.

The acquisition of Thornton is a nice feelgood story, and it maybe it'll work out.  But we tried this with Marleau (and BTW he brought all the same intangibles Dubas is citing as reasons to get Jumbo into the dressing room ...  I thought these guys were supposed to have absorbed all that already from Patty?) and we saw how effective he was at the end of his time here.  Luckily it's only a 1-year risk at bottom dollar for a 3C/4C so it's worth a gamble.  I for one will be keeping my expectations modest.
Click to expand...
Yeah for sure. It's not that Patty was horrible, he was horrible for 6.5M+ against the cap and being put out there during the wrong situations.
 
Re: Ceci
Just because you don't agree with the sentiment does not make it BS. Our eyes really only tend to remember goals, exacerbated by highlight reels when we miss watching games. So for a defensive defenseman, you only remember mistakes.

The following thread is linked in situ; the first half of the long thread is about Ceci's career up to the Leafs trade and how he appeared in the model, accurately as an over-his-head scapegoat. When he finished out his season with the Leafs, the defensive impacts show up even though quality of competition and usage largely stayed high, and partnered significantly with a defensive-liability in Rielly.
https://twitter.com/ineffectivemath/status/1317889256577269760
 
As for why Dubas would even bother talking about Ceci: it was a specific question brought up by a reporter that wasn't Simmons.

Treating former players respectfully is just good HR and PR. Dubas' words and actions are constantly evaluated, not just by us, but by his current players and future players to come. They see a manager who tries to use every resource to position his players to succeed, treats them fairly in negotiation, and emphasizes their positives in public. This costs Dubas almost nothing, but is valuable down the road when a vet or rebounding player is looking for a place to rebuild on a show-me deal.

Compare and contrast to Vegas who have pivoted from plucky castoffs who work harder together to a ruthless mercenary outfit because a couple of really sexy players came within reach.
 
Bender said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
His discussion of Ceci is pure BS.

The acquisition of Thornton is a nice feelgood story, and it maybe it'll work out.  But we tried this with Marleau (and BTW he brought all the same intangibles Dubas is citing as reasons to get Jumbo into the dressing room ...  I thought these guys were supposed to have absorbed all that already from Patty?) and we saw how effective he was at the end of his time here.  Luckily it's only a 1-year risk at bottom dollar for a 3C/4C so it's worth a gamble.  I for one will be keeping my expectations modest.
Click to expand...
Yeah for sure. It's not that Patty was horrible, he was horrible for 6.5M+ against the cap and being put out there during the wrong situations.
Click to expand...

Seems to me like that makes the Marleau and Thornton deals not very similar at all.
 
Bender said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
herman said:
https://twitter.com/leafsnews/status/1317932001240977409
Click to expand...

His discussion of Ceci is pure BS.

The acquisition of Thornton is a nice feelgood story, and it maybe it'll work out.  But we tried this with Marleau (and BTW he brought all the same intangibles Dubas is citing as reasons to get Jumbo into the dressing room ...  I thought these guys were supposed to have absorbed all that already from Patty?) and we saw how effective he was at the end of his time here.  Luckily it's only a 1-year risk at bottom dollar for a 3C/4C so it's worth a gamble.  I for one will be keeping my expectations modest.
Click to expand...
Yeah for sure. It's not that Patty was horrible, he was horrible for 6.5M+ against the cap and being put out there during the wrong situations.
Click to expand...

Marleau wouldn't have been dealt if he was making 700K.

It's also interesting how standards are being set for a guy four years into his career.  Matthews isn't a grizzled vet four years into his career.  Burn him at the stake.

 
I mean the Leafs needed a 3C and they signed the best one available on the market to a league minimum deal. That's the story. They didn't sign him to sell jerseys or to fix the locker room.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
I mean the Leafs needed a 3C and they signed the best one available on the market to a league minimum deal. That's the story. They didn't sign him to sell jerseys or to fix the locker room.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand anyone that thinks this was a bad signing...it's the very lowest dollar you can pay a player, on the very shortest term you could do a deal at.

There could not be less risk attached.

Who was the alternative centre that was a better player that would sign for 1 year at league minimum that Dubas shunned?
 
herman said:
Re: Ceci
Just because you don't agree with the sentiment does not make it BS. Our eyes really only tend to remember goals, exacerbated by highlight reels when we miss watching games. So for a defensive defenseman, you only remember mistakes.

The following thread is linked in situ; the first half of the long thread is about Ceci's career up to the Leafs trade and how he appeared in the model, accurately as an over-his-head scapegoat. When he finished out his season with the Leafs, the defensive impacts show up even though quality of competition and usage largely stayed high, and partnered significantly with a defensive-liability in Rielly.
https://twitter.com/ineffectivemath/status/1317889256577269760
Click to expand...

::)  Oh please.  Models schmodels.  Dubas was in no rush to re-sign him, you'll notice.  He was awful.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
I mean the Leafs needed a 3C and they signed the best one available on the market to a league minimum deal. That's the story. They didn't sign him to sell jerseys or to fix the locker room.
Click to expand...

Dubas went out of his way to emphasize his impact in the locker room.  Which I'm sure is true.  What I was saying is that they said the same thing about Marleau ? which was true ? so the question is, how many times does the core of the team need to have gudpro Playoff Hocket success modeled for them?  At some point they need to go out and do it.  Matthews did this summer.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
CarltonTheBear said:
I mean the Leafs needed a 3C and they signed the best one available on the market to a league minimum deal. That's the story. They didn't sign him to sell jerseys or to fix the locker room.
Click to expand...
Dubas went out of his way to emphasize his impact in the locker room.
Click to expand...

He also went out of his way to call Ceci a good defenceman, which you called BS in the post as the Thornton stuff. Maybe sometimes, like all GMs, he just tells the press what they want to hear for soundbites.
 
And I'm not saying that his "intangibles" aren't a nice little bonus, it's just not the primary reason he was brought in.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
::)  Oh please.  Models schmodels.  Dubas was in no rush to re-sign him, you'll notice.  He was awful.
Click to expand...

Just because he didn't fit the organizational needs doesn't make him 'awful'. He's an awful puck handler but Toronto mitigated it reasonably well. The market yielded some better ones; pretty sure if Bogo was a no go, we'd see Ceci again.
 
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