2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Bill_Berg]

I couldn't help myself and I'm glad you to see you couldn't either.

I mean I guess Clifford is fine playing in the AHL? I can't imagine him playing regularly with the Leafs. Doesn't say two-way for Clifford though.

 

[bustaheims]

I couldn't help myself and I'm glad you to see you couldn't either.

I mean I guess Clifford is fine playing in the AHL? I can't imagine him playing regularly with the Leafs. Doesn't say two-way for Clifford though.

That just means he gets paid the same amount regardless of whether he's in the AHL or NHL. Pretty standard for any vet like him.

Both deals are reportedly for near the league minimum, so, no real cap implications, either.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

There's nothing wrong with either of those deals and anyone who thinks there might be is definitely over-thinking things.

 

[dappleganger]

My suggested D-pairings post-trade deadline:

Rielly - Brodie
Graves - Lyubushkin
Muzzin - Subban

Thoughts?

I realize Sandin isn't in here, but first injury (Muzzin) and he's in.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

My suggested D-pairings post-trade deadline:

Rielly - Brodie
Graves - Lyubushkin
Muzzin - Subban

Thoughts?

Leaving aside potential cap issues, do you really suggest that they sit Sandin in the playoffs?

 

[dappleganger]

My suggested D-pairings post-trade deadline:

Rielly - Brodie
Graves - Lyubushkin
Muzzin - Subban

Thoughts?

Leaving aside potential cap issues, do you really suggest that they sit Sandin in the playoffs?

Sorry, just made an edit.  ;D

I fully expect Sandin to factor in for a lengthy run.

 

[L K]

I guess I don't really understand the two year aspect for a guy like Clifford.  It's not my money (although it's pretty much no-ones money with Leafs ticket prices).  He's not an NHL player.  He shouldn't really be a call-up option under any circumstance.

 

[herman]

I guess I don't really understand the two year aspect for a guy like Clifford.  It's not my money (although it's pretty much no-ones money with Leafs ticket prices).  He's not an NHL player.  He shouldn't really be a call-up option under any circumstance.

I think MLHS got the long and short of it, and we've seen this exact type of deal throughout Dubas' tenure.

The two-year Clifford contract speaks to Kyle Dubas? commitment to retaining a high-character veteran leader who can toggle between the levels of the organization, provide mentorship to the team?s prospects, bring some leadership and ?glue guy? presence in the big club?s practices, and supply a depth option for the Leafs? fourth line in case of injuries. Knowing the Leafs, with their resources, can hand out buriable, league-minimum one-way contracts to non-NHL regulars without much second thought, it?s something of a, ?why not?? proposition knowing the relationship Clifford has with the team and his desire to stay.

Clifford will need to clear waivers at different times in the coming months and years to remain with the organization, but the multi-year, one-way contract is somewhat of a deterrent to other franchises that may want to claim him just to use him in a similar role as the Leafs are currently. If he?s getting claimed, it?s probably because he?s receiving a real opportunity to play more NHL minutes elsewhere.

Playing for the Marlies is easily the cushiest non-NHL gig

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Sorry, just made an edit.  ;D

I fully expect Sandin to factor in for a lengthy run.

Fair enough, but I still think that defence would be improved by having Sandin in the line-up every day as opposed to being the #7 defenceman. And while I understand the appeal of Ryan Graves, I wonder if he'd have the same impact here playing tough minutes alongside Lyubushkin as he did in Colorado and New Jersey where he played mostly with one of Makar/Toews/Girard last season and Dougie Hamilton this season.

All in all, I'm not super convinced that group is better than a healthy top-6 we have currently.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I couldn't help myself and I'm glad you to see you couldn't either.

I mean I guess Clifford is fine playing in the AHL? I can't imagine him playing regularly with the Leafs. Doesn't say two-way for Clifford though.

That just means he gets paid the same amount regardless of whether he's in the AHL or NHL. Pretty standard for any vet like him.

Both deals are reportedly for near the league minimum, so, no real cap implications, either.

Ah I see. NHL money in the AHL, doesn't count towards the cap while he's down there.

 

[bustaheims]

I couldn't help myself and I'm glad you to see you couldn't either.

I mean I guess Clifford is fine playing in the AHL? I can't imagine him playing regularly with the Leafs. Doesn't say two-way for Clifford though.

That just means he gets paid the same amount regardless of whether he's in the AHL or NHL. Pretty standard for any vet like him.

Both deals are reportedly for near the league minimum, so, no real cap implications, either.

Ah I see. NHL money in the AHL, doesn't count towards the cap while he's down there.

Not at the cap hit he'll be carrying, no.

 

[L K]

Most goals since:
2021-2022 - Matthews 43
2020-2022 - Matthews 84
2019-2022 - Matthews 131
2018-2022 - Matthews 168
2017-2022 - Ovechkin 208 (Matthews 2nd at 202)
2016-2022 - Matthews 242
2015-2022 - Ovechkin 291 (Matthews 2nd at 242)
2014-2022 - Ovechkin 344 (Matthews 5th at 242)
2013-2022 - Ovechkin 395 (Matthews 10th at 242)

Most goals by draft year
2012-2021 - Matthews (242)
2011 - Landeskog (248)
2010 - Seguin (298), Skinner (288),
2009 - Tavares (383), Duchene (278)
2008 - Stamkos (466), Eberle (256)
2007 - Kane, Benn, Pacioretty, Couture, Van Riemsdyk, Simmonds, Perron (255)
2006 - Kessel, Toews, Marchand, Giroux, Backstrom, Staal (249)
2005 - Crosby, Kopitar, Neal, Stastny, Oshie, Hornqvsit, Ryan (261)
2004 - Ovechkin, Malkin, Wheeler, Ladd (255)

You have to go back 10 years to push Matthews outside the top 10 in cumulative goal scoring column.  If you plucked Matthews' 5.5 season career and put him in any draft class as far back as 2004 he finishes at worst top 8 in scoring.  Some of those guys have played double the number of games.  You have to go back to the 2003 draft to finally have a year where he falls outside the top 10 in goal scoring (12th).  Pre-lockout to get to that stage. 

We talk about great players in the NHL.  Matthews is absolutely a generational player.

 

[Bender]

So just thinking about how Auston seems to be on pace to break Rick Vaive's single season record, I have a couple questions...

Was Rick Vaive underrated? I don't see anything written about him ever considering he has the team's goal scoring record.

Secondly... Jonas Siegel says Auston's season may go down as one of the greatest ever seasons as a Leaf. How does this compare to, say, Gilmour's 127pt season, which I'd assume is #1?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

So just thinking about how Auston seems to be on pace to break Rick Vaive's single season record, I have a couple questions...

Was Rick Vaive underrated? I don't see anything written about him ever considering he has the team's goal scoring record.

Secondly... Jonas Siegel says Auston's season may go down as one of the greatest ever seasons as a Leaf. How does this compare to, say, Gilmour's 127pt season, which I'd assume is #1?

As to Vaive, my thoughts: ?Was? he underrated? I don?t think so at the time. He was considered a very, very good goal-scorer by league standards and had multiple very good scoring years. 441 career goals is good during any era, but bear in mind that he scored 54 goals in a season when Dennis Maruk scored 60. He was team captain for years when the team was honestly never any good. Is he underrated now? Maybe. I?ve always felt that if you switched Vaive and Glenn Anderson on Edmonton and Toronto that Vaive would be the one with 500+ goals, multiple Cups and be in the Hall of Fame and Anderson would have none of those achievements. That?s just the way it goes sometimes.

As for Leaf seasons, I wouldn?t presume to judge the calibre of seasons played by Keon and Kennedy, etc. but in my 40 years of closing following the Leafs, Gilmour?s 127 point season was absolutely #1. He would have won the Hart, in addition to the Selke he won, if Mario hadn?t come back from cancer.

 

[Bullfrog]

....

As for Leaf seasons, I wouldn?t presume to judge the calibre of seasons played by Keon and Kennedy, etc. but in my 40 years of closing following the Leafs, Gilmour?s 127 point season was absolutely #1. He would have won the Hart, in addition to the Selke he won, if Mario hadn?t come back from cancer.

I miss 90s hockey.

1 Mario Lemieux Pittsburgh 160
2 Pat LaFontaine Buffalo 148
3 Adam Oates Boston 142
4 Steve Yzerman Detroit 137
5 Teemu Selanne Winnipeg 132
5 Pierre Turgeon NY Islanders 132
7 Doug Gilmour Toronto 127
7 Alexander Mogilny Buffalo 127
9 Luc Robitaille Los Angeles 125
10 Mark Recchi Philadelphia 123

That's the 76-goal year for Mogilny and Selanne.

As an aside, it's sometimes mind-boggling how we throw around the fact that Matthews might hit 60 goals. It's only been done 27 times in the entire history of the NHL by 14 players (if I counted right).

 

[CarltonTheBear]

As an aside, it's sometimes mind-boggling how we throw around the fact that Matthews might hit 60 goals. It's only been done 27 times in the entire history of the NHL by 14 players (if I counted right).

Looks like 39 times by 20 players (link), but yeah still obviously crazy. Has only been done twice since the 95/96 season (Ovi and Stamkos). Hopefully he pulls it off.

Also Ovi and Stamkos had both only ever been on pace for 60 goals once in their careers. Matthews has two where he's scoring at a 64/65 goal pace.

 

[Redleaf]

As an aside, it's sometimes mind-boggling how we throw around the fact that Matthews might hit 60 goals. It's only been done 27 times in the entire history of the NHL by 14 players (if I counted right).

Looks like 39 times by 20 players (link), but yeah still obviously crazy. Has only been done twice since the 95/96 season (Ovi and Stamkos). Hopefully he pulls it off.

Also Ovi and Stamkos had both only ever been on pace for 60 goals once in their careers. Matthews has two where he's scoring at a 64/65 goal pace.

That 92 goal season by Gretzky still astonishes me .

 

[bustaheims]

As an aside, it's sometimes mind-boggling how we throw around the fact that Matthews might hit 60 goals. It's only been done 27 times in the entire history of the NHL by 14 players (if I counted right).

Looks like 39 times by 20 players (link), but yeah still obviously crazy. Has only been done twice since the 95/96 season (Ovi and Stamkos). Hopefully he pulls it off.

Also Ovi and Stamkos had both only ever been on pace for 60 goals once in their careers. Matthews has two where he's scoring at a 64/65 goal pace.

That 92 goal season by Gretzky still astonishes me .

He only led the league by 28 goals and 65 points that season . . . 

 

[Redleaf]

As an aside, it's sometimes mind-boggling how we throw around the fact that Matthews might hit 60 goals. It's only been done 27 times in the entire history of the NHL by 14 players (if I counted right).

Looks like 39 times by 20 players (link), but yeah still obviously crazy. Has only been done twice since the 95/96 season (Ovi and Stamkos). Hopefully he pulls it off.

Also Ovi and Stamkos had both only ever been on pace for 60 goals once in their careers. Matthews has two where he's scoring at a 64/65 goal pace.

That 92 goal season by Gretzky still astonishes me .

He only led the league by 28 goals and 65 points that season . . .

It?s so far off the charts it?s hard to believe he was able to do that, but he hit 87 goals a few years later so?.

 

[Zee]

https://twitter.com/LeafsPR/status/1501941015908798469?s=20&t=YShB1FUGgbMgp2AwlA3UgA


Wonder if this just happened or has he been trying to play through it which might explain his poor play?  I seem to remember a player sort of running into him last game but didn't seem that bad.