2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Bender]

Well, I said I'd wait until post deadline to make a statement on the collective moves Dubas made so here is my verdict...

Eh, seems ok. I'd probably have been more excited if he'd just added Kane or some other top 6 scorer but there you go.

Like exclusively Kane? What if it was like NYR and it was Kane & Tarasenko?

 

[ZBBM]

(Dubas also confirmed that Matthews is playing hurt, and slightly implied that Engvall and Sandin were salary cap casualties... although he never once said "we'll miss those guys" so perhaps he also felt they would be exposed in the playoffs by opposing teams/coaches)

I noticed both those things too when I read the transcript on MLHS. Actually, in regard to Matthews, he put it in the past perfect tense:

As everyone knows, he has played through some injuries and some things that have hampered him.

You could read this as, it's over now ? but I agree with you, I think he's saying he's not 100%.

I also agree re 38 and 47.  I thought his comments about Sandin were surprisingly vanilla for a guy who usually has a good word for all his players.  And he barely mentioned Engvall. 

 

[cw]

Here's a question for those more up on the rules:

With the roster cap space to sign Knies, I presume Bettman can't claim they're hiding Mete on LTIR (I doubt we even had to concern ourselves with that ...)

Mete would arguably be the 11th NHL dman.
The Marlies are doing very well - tied with the best pts win% in the AHL.
They just shipped Hunt off to reduce an AHL veteran (they're limited by how many they can play).
Can Mete play for the Marlies without having to clear waivers? (He'd have to be on the Clear Day roster ..)
Just curious.

Mete last cleared waivers on Oct 10 and he played 11 games after that with the Leafs so he'll have to clear waivers to be sent down. He can go on a LTIR conditioning stint with the Marlies for up to 6 days or 3 games. Leafs could technically ask for a 2 game extension if the 3 aren't enough.

That's what I thought. I knew the conditioning option.

I guess he's 11th in the dman depth chart.
Since Benn cleared, maybe he clears if they try to waive him soon - before more dmen in the league get banged up.

If the Leafs get to the 11th dman due to injuries, their Cup chances wouldn't be very bright though it might be a sign they got past the 1st round.

The Marlies have a good team. He could help.

 

[Kin]

Like exclusively Kane? What if it was like NYR and it was Kane & Tarasenko?

I guess? Adding both Tarasenko and Kane to the Leafs would either force you to switch Nylander to RW or use one of their RW's on the 3rd line and I don't think Tarasenko adds much in that context. You'd be better off adding a defenseman there I think.

The Leafs made a lot of changes and I think they're probably a bit better at the edges but I'd still probably have rather gambled on Kane's upside.

 

[herman]

The Leafs pushed their floor way up, but their ceiling continues to rest on the shoulders of their core captains + Willy.

Keefe had some remarks if you want to hear oblique feedback about the departed.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/03/03/sheldon-keefe-post-game-leafs-2-vs-flames-1-2/

I thought we defended really hard. All of a sudden, the game started to really open us for us because of how we defended. We started to get plays in transition. We started to get more time on the rush. We started to get in behind them.

Guys defended really hard. Once we had the lead, I thought we just protected our net well. Looking at some of the plays where we advanced pucks, we took some real hard hits tonight in that third period to advance the play.
That is what it takes. Acciari and Lafferty were two players who stood out to me for really contesting pucks on the wall to get those out. That is what it takes to win. That is why you acquire those guys. The puck is in question on the wall, you know you are going to take a big hit, and the puck advances. It gets out.

Which you know is just echoing what Dubas said in the presser more specifically

That was the goal of the entire exercise over the last couple of weeks: take the first part of the year and see where our team is at.  In concert with Sheldon and our player personnel department, find out what is available, how it addresses the needs that we have, and try to go and address them.

[?]

I think the team?s third period last night sort of exemplifies the difference in the team ? just a little bit more competitive, a little bit more sacrifice, willing to put themselves on the line to win pucks and do the right things defensively that aren?t necessarily the fanciest or the sexiest things in the game but contribute to winning.

 

[L K]

Ultimately the puck needs to go in the net but I feel a bit more confident that this team can pot some scrappy goals out of their bottom 6.  As much as the big earners haven't had a 10 point in 5 game playoff series, the lack of bottom 6 scoring has killed them as teams shutting down Matthews/Marner pretty much guaranteed a 3-2 game or lower.

 

[cw]

I have mixed feelings about the deadline.

I think Dubas improved the team.
I think this group has a fairly short window due to the cap and expiring contracts so Dubas was justified generally.
The roster of talent probably has the best depth I can recall a Leafs team having.
The goaltending will probably be the biggest factor to determine their playoff fate.

With as many changes as they've made, it is going to take them a while to gel.
Dubas addressed it and added
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/03/03/kyle-dubas-on-the-difference-in-this-years-maple-leafs-team/
I think that is just part of the profession and part of the job. I don?t know anybody who doesn?t come with a great deal of anxiety to it in terms of worrying each day about the group, how it is fitting together, and every single part of it.

It is a job that whether you want to or not, you live it. You don?t just come and do it, go home, and drop it. You live it. It is part of everything that you do.

9 dmen with Benn 10th and Mete 11th. That doesn't work for me as good use of resources.
The jury is out on how well it will get utilized. But you know that only 6-7 will be playing in a given game and the forward depth is dependent on Knies signing or the AHL. I would have liked to have seen at least one of them flipped for a left winger.

Dubas added 6 players and looks to be adding a 7th in Knies.
If the roster was that lacking, after his declared 40 game analysis, why wait until a week before the deadline before addressing all of it? Dubas spoke about how even a few more games together could help them. I do not understand why some of it couldn't have happened sooner.

 

[herman]

Load manage and rest up Matthews so he can be your top-6 deadline acquisition.

 

[cw]

Bobby McMann recently completed a string of 15 goals in 15 AHL games.
With an unlimited NHL roster after the deadline and the cap space (for Knies..), I was curious if he would get another look as we wait for Knies.
Last Sunday, in his 16th game since the goal streak started (in late December), he got hurt.
Hasn't been back since.
Couldn't find anything on the injury ...

 

[dappleganger]

9 dmen with Benn 10th and Mete 11th. That doesn't work for me as good use of resources.
The jury is out on how well it will get utilized. But you know that only 6-7 will be playing in a given game and the forward depth is dependent on Knies signing or the AHL. I would have liked to have seen at least one of them flipped for a left winger.

I completely agree about a left winger, but was Knies the best option available considering acquisition cost and cap hit? It's definitely a gamble if that was ultimately the decision they made.

My ultimate desire would have been trading Knies + the 2023 1st round pick for Troy Terry (cap hit 1.45m). That would have had me dreaming about a Stanley Cup. 


Bunting-Matthews-Terry
Jarnkrok-Tavares-Marner
Kerfoot-O'Reilly-Nylander
Lafferty-Kampf-Acciari

 

[Kin]

Ultimately the puck needs to go in the net but I feel a bit more confident that this team can pot some scrappy goals out of their bottom 6.  As much as the big earners haven't had a 10 point in 5 game playoff series, the lack of bottom 6 scoring has killed them as teams shutting down Matthews/Marner pretty much guaranteed a 3-2 game or lower.

That's why I still kind of think they're a scorer short. I still look at the team and see two scoring lines and two lines that will struggle to contribute offense.

 

[Kin]

Load manage and rest up Matthews so he can be your top-6 deadline acquisition.

Some real "College UFA's are basically 1st round picks" energy here.

 

[Bill33]

Yeah, i hope mcmann is the next man up. They never did address the top 6LW glaring need, but who knows what options were truly available.

That said, if the truly the plan was to get the 13th best scoring option in NCAA 3 NHL games and put him in against Tampa, then I sure hope luck is on Dubas' side, because logic isn't

 

[Omallley]

If the roster was that lacking, after his declared 40 game analysis, why wait until a week before the deadline before addressing all of it? Dubas spoke about how even a few more games together could help them. I do not understand why some of it couldn't have happened sooner.

I don't disagree with the player mix (that's a lot of defensemen to carry) or the fact that it is a lot of folks to bring in at/near the deadline. But I can only assume that player availability (enough teams out of playoffs to be sellers), and cap space (both maximizing available space for the leafs, but also another team's willingness to retain salary) were the driving factors for the players that they were looking to acquire. You don't get RoR without the blues being well out of the playoffs and there being enough salary retained. Ditto McCabe (although, in fairness, Chicago's been terrible for the season).

 

[herman]

Load manage and rest up Matthews so he can be your top-6 deadline acquisition.

Some real "College UFA's are basically 1st round picks" energy here.

Haha maybe! But Matthews is a known quantity and him rounding back to health and form pushes the needle tangibly. 

 

[Andy007]

I have mixed feelings about the deadline.

I think Dubas improved the team.
I think this group has a fairly short window due to the cap and expiring contracts so Dubas was justified generally.
The roster of talent probably has the best depth I can recall a Leafs team having.
The goaltending will probably be the biggest factor to determine their playoff fate.

With as many changes as they've made, it is going to take them a while to gel.
Dubas addressed it and added
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/03/03/kyle-dubas-on-the-difference-in-this-years-maple-leafs-team/
I think that is just part of the profession and part of the job. I don?t know anybody who doesn?t come with a great deal of anxiety to it in terms of worrying each day about the group, how it is fitting together, and every single part of it.

It is a job that whether you want to or not, you live it. You don?t just come and do it, go home, and drop it. You live it. It is part of everything that you do.

9 dmen with Benn 10th and Mete 11th. That doesn't work for me as good use of resources.
The jury is out on how well it will get utilized. But you know that only 6-7 will be playing in a given game and the forward depth is dependent on Knies signing or the AHL. I would have liked to have seen at least one of them flipped for a left winger.

Dubas added 6 players and looks to be adding a 7th in Knies.
If the roster was that lacking, after his declared 40 game analysis, why wait until a week before the deadline before addressing all of it? Dubas spoke about how even a few more games together could help them. I do not understand why some of it couldn't have happened sooner.

I think this is a very fair assessment of the situation. The defense, in particular, is one area that seems a bit wasteful. I was SURE the acquisition of Schenn meant Holl would be traded. Schenn/Timmins/Benn would make a very solid 6/7/8 and with 2023 and 2024 1sts, along with the return for Holl (and Gustafsson) a top-6 LW could easily be obtained without leaving the pick cupboard completely barren. And then ROR could slide comfortably into the 3C spot where he absolutely should be.

Yea, I'm a little bit confused still with this plan.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I have mixed feelings about the deadline.

I think Dubas improved the team.
I think this group has a fairly short window due to the cap and expiring contracts so Dubas was justified generally.
The roster of talent probably has the best depth I can recall a Leafs team having.
The goaltending will probably be the biggest factor to determine their playoff fate.

With as many changes as they've made, it is going to take them a while to gel.
Dubas addressed it and added
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/03/03/kyle-dubas-on-the-difference-in-this-years-maple-leafs-team/
I think that is just part of the profession and part of the job. I don?t know anybody who doesn?t come with a great deal of anxiety to it in terms of worrying each day about the group, how it is fitting together, and every single part of it.

It is a job that whether you want to or not, you live it. You don?t just come and do it, go home, and drop it. You live it. It is part of everything that you do.

9 dmen with Benn 10th and Mete 11th. That doesn't work for me as good use of resources.
The jury is out on how well it will get utilized. But you know that only 6-7 will be playing in a given game and the forward depth is dependent on Knies signing or the AHL. I would have liked to have seen at least one of them flipped for a left winger.

Dubas added 6 players and looks to be adding a 7th in Knies.
If the roster was that lacking, after his declared 40 game analysis, why wait until a week before the deadline before addressing all of it? Dubas spoke about how even a few more games together could help them. I do not understand why some of it couldn't have happened sooner.

I think this is a very fair assessment of the situation. The defense, in particular, is one area that seems a bit wasteful. I was SURE the acquisition of Schenn meant Holl would be traded. Schenn/Timmins/Benn would make a very solid 6/7/8 and with 2023 and 2024 1sts, along with the return for Holl (and Gustafsson) a top-6 LW could easily be obtained without leaving the pick cupboard completely barren. And then ROR could slide comfortably into the 3C spot where he absolutely should be.

Yea, I'm a little bit confused still with this plan.

Who was that top 6LW that was easy to get? As for the D, I don't blame him. We had our to 3 D or for lengthy times this season. Not sure if they still lead but the Leafs lead the league in man games lost to injury at one point. The Marlies aren't loaded with replacements.
As for Holl, 3rd pairing PKer is just fine. Schenn/Timmins are not as good defensively as him. Holl is our best PKing D man. I actually think with Schenn around, Holl will use the body more. Competition is a good thing.

 

[Kin]

Haha maybe! But Matthews is a known quantity and him rounding back to health and form pushes the needle tangibly. 

Yeah, he's also already on the team.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Kerfoot and Holl are actually own rentals.

 

[Bender]

I have mixed feelings about the deadline.

I think Dubas improved the team.
I think this group has a fairly short window due to the cap and expiring contracts so Dubas was justified generally.
The roster of talent probably has the best depth I can recall a Leafs team having.
The goaltending will probably be the biggest factor to determine their playoff fate.

With as many changes as they've made, it is going to take them a while to gel.
Dubas addressed it and added
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/03/03/kyle-dubas-on-the-difference-in-this-years-maple-leafs-team/
I think that is just part of the profession and part of the job. I don?t know anybody who doesn?t come with a great deal of anxiety to it in terms of worrying each day about the group, how it is fitting together, and every single part of it.

It is a job that whether you want to or not, you live it. You don?t just come and do it, go home, and drop it. You live it. It is part of everything that you do.

9 dmen with Benn 10th and Mete 11th. That doesn't work for me as good use of resources.
The jury is out on how well it will get utilized. But you know that only 6-7 will be playing in a given game and the forward depth is dependent on Knies signing or the AHL. I would have liked to have seen at least one of them flipped for a left winger.

Dubas added 6 players and looks to be adding a 7th in Knies.
If the roster was that lacking, after his declared 40 game analysis, why wait until a week before the deadline before addressing all of it? Dubas spoke about how even a few more games together could help them. I do not understand why some of it couldn't have happened sooner.

I thought about that and what is the impetus for teams to sell that much earlier, especially if they can better dictate price earlier in the year? I think you had to play a game of chicken to get these prices to fall.