2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[herman]

I still think the best available path forward is splitting up Marner's cap hit over two or more multiple key pieces: 2C, top-6 W, top-4 D. It's very weird to see people saying we can't afford Nylander's next contract when it's more than likely going to just come in under Marner's current deal.

Marner has great offensive and defensive value, but defensive wingers are cheap. Nylander can cover Marner's offensive production and then some, for less (2-5M given their next contract projections) without zeroed out in the playoffs. Nylander's legit shooting threat opens up more room for Matthews than Marner's playmaking does (with fewer silly blueline turnovers).

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If we're going to target bigger fish, I'd look at Zucker, Gostisbehere, Orlov, and Killorn.

Orlov's arguably the top UFA defender available so I can't imagine he comes in with any sort of affordability (assuming Boston doesn't just re-sign him).

GhostBear I like but as a lefty it's a tough fit which is why I leaned toward Klingberg as a buy-low offensive guy. Wonder if the Leafs taking a trip to Sweden could make the team more appealing for some players from there too.

Killorn seems like a guy with a lot of miles on his body and I doubt we can get him on a short-term deal that would avoid that worry.

Zucker though is definitely someone I like and could be had for a decent deal. It'd certainly be nice to bring in a middle-6 guy with some speed especially after losing Engvall and (probably) Kerfoot.

 

[Bill33]

I still think the best available path forward is splitting up Marner's cap hit over two or more multiple key pieces: 2C, top-6 W, top-4 D. It's very weird to see people saying we can't afford Nylander's next contract when it's more than likely going to just come in under Marner's current deal.

Marner has great offensive and defensive value, but defensive wingers are cheap. Nylander can cover Marner's offensive production and then some, for less (2-5M given their next contract projections) without zeroed out in the playoffs. Nylander's legit shooting threat opens up more room for Matthews than Marner's playmaking does (with fewer silly blueline turnovers).

All I can say is that you'd make another team exceptionally happy to have a selke candidate that's led the team in points for the last 5 seasons fall in their lap for a non-elite quantity return. If Nylander can cover Marner's offensive production, we haven't seen it over a very large sample.

 

[herman]

All I can say is that you'd make another team exceptionally happy to have a selke candidate that's led the team in points for the last 5 seasons fall in their lap for a non-elite quantity return. If Nylander can cover Marner's offensive production, we haven't seen it over a very large sample.

Because Marner's been occupying those minutes and fetching 2nd assists on the PP? Everyone is saying John Tavares at centre is not ideal with his footspeed; who has been carrying that line offensively for the past 3 seasons?

Their offensive rates are very comparable in the aggregate since 2019, Nylander leaning more towards dangerous chances, Marner leaning more towards assists, at more than 1 Kerfoot less in cap hit.

I think Marner's value around the league can lead to significant return. The way the Tkachuk trade shook out will likely even grease the wheels for the Leafs.

 

[Arn]

All I can say is that you'd make another team exceptionally happy to have a selke candidate that's led the team in points for the last 5 seasons fall in their lap for a non-elite quantity return. If Nylander can cover Marner's offensive production, we haven't seen it over a very large sample.

Because Marner's been occupying those minutes and fetching 2nd assists on the PP? Everyone is saying John Tavares at centre is not ideal with his footspeed; who has been carrying that line offensively for the past 3 seasons?

Their offensive rates are very comparable in the aggregate since 2019, Nylander leaning more towards dangerous chances, Marner leaning more towards assists, at more than 1 Kerfoot less in cap hit.

I think Marner's value around the league can lead to significant return. The way the Tkachuk trade shook out will likely even grease the wheels for the Leafs.

Marner to Florida for Tkachuk?

 

[bustaheims]

Orlov's arguably the top UFA defender available so I can't imagine he comes in with any sort of affordability (assuming Boston doesn't just re-sign him).

GhostBear I like but as a lefty it's a tough fit which is why I leaned toward Klingberg as a buy-low offensive guy. Wonder if the Leafs taking a trip to Sweden could make the team more appealing for some players from there too.

Killorn seems like a guy with a lot of miles on his body and I doubt we can get him on a short-term deal that would avoid that worry.

Zucker though is definitely someone I like and could be had for a decent deal. It'd certainly be nice to bring in a middle-6 guy with some speed especially after losing Engvall and (probably) Kerfoot.

Yeah. Zucker would probably be my top target this summer. He's a solid offensive contributor who isn't afraid to get in on the forecheck and initiate some physical play. He'd be a good compliment to any of the top 3 lines.

Ghostbear could be a tough fit, but with McCabe and Brodie both capable of playing on the right side, there are ways to make it work. It's not an ideal fit, but he's probably the best puckmoving D available as a UFA.

Orlov is likely out of the Leafs' price range, agreed, but still someone they should at least consider.

Killorn on a 2 or 3 year deal would be great. I'm not convinced he's going to get offered deals much longer than that, to be honest. At 33 with the type of game he brings, I think most of the league shares your concerns.

 

[mr grieves]

I still think the best available path forward is splitting up Marner's cap hit over two or more multiple key pieces: 2C, top-6 W, top-4 D. It's very weird to see people saying we can't afford Nylander's next contract when it's more than likely going to just come in under Marner's current deal.

Marner has great offensive and defensive value, but defensive wingers are cheap. Nylander can cover Marner's offensive production and then some, for less (2-5M given their next contract projections) without zeroed out in the playoffs. Nylander's legit shooting threat opens up more room for Matthews than Marner's playmaking does (with fewer silly blueline turnovers).

I think this has been evident since the pandemic froze the cap and killed our dreams of a well-balanced lineup under a $90m cap in 2021-22. With Tavares's decline, feels like it's something to get on with.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I was poking around in cap friendly, and if they can dump Murray, the Leafs will actually have a good amount of cap space next year.

It's actually a fair bit more than I even thought. Let's just do a basic/boring breakdown of what next seasons roster could look like.

Say Murray gets dumped fully (seems likely in a Mrazek-lite trade at the draft), Samsonov is re-signed ($3.5mil) and then the trio of UFAs I think most people want back are re-signed (ROR $5mil, Acciari $1.5mil, Schenn $1mil):

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
______-ROR-Marner
Knies-______-Jarnkrok
McMann-Acciari-Lafferty

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Assuming a $83.5mil cap ceiling that roster leaves you with $8.5mil in cap space to get a couple of middle-6 forwards. Probably more than a lot of contending teams. 

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/GMillerTSN/status/1658538226888343552
Sandin reunion

 

[Kin]

Good for them. I think playing for your country after a disappointing loss is pretty admirable.

 

[Arn]

I was poking around in cap friendly, and if they can dump Murray, the Leafs will actually have a good amount of cap space next year.

It's actually a fair bit more than I even thought. Let's just do a basic/boring breakdown of what next seasons roster could look like.

Say Murray gets dumped fully (seems likely in a Mrazek-lite trade at the draft), Samsonov is re-signed ($3.5mil) and then the trio of UFAs I think most people want back are re-signed (ROR $5mil, Acciari $1.5mil, Schenn $1mil):

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
______-ROR-Marner
Knies-______-Jarnkrok
McMann-Acciari-Lafferty

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Assuming a $83.5mil cap ceiling that roster leaves you with $8.5mil in cap space to get a couple of middle-6 forwards. Probably more than a lot of contending teams. 

I?m genuinely, probably stupidly, intrigued by Domi.  Could he fill the second line centre role? I think that?s the role he?s playing for Dallas?

 

[bustaheims]

I?m genuinely, probably stupidly, intrigued by Domi.  Could he fill the second line centre role? I think that?s the role he?s playing for Dallas?

On the wing with ROR and Marner, he could be a useful addition. He's too defensively suspect to play down the middle full time.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I?m genuinely, probably stupidly, intrigued by Domi.  Could he fill the second line centre role? I think that?s the role he?s playing for Dallas?

On the wing with ROR and Marner, he could be a useful addition. He's too defensively suspect to play down the middle full time.

I could see him in one of those 2 holes I left: 2LW or 3C on a line that can actually score. But 2C seems like a stretch.

Domi's technically listed as Dallas' 2C in some line-up charts but he's 9th in 5-on-5 average ice time among Dallas forwards and behind 2 other centres.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

What about the annual Denis Malgin ExperimentTM .

 

[Bill33]

I was poking around in cap friendly, and if they can dump Murray, the Leafs will actually have a good amount of cap space next year.

It's actually a fair bit more than I even thought. Let's just do a basic/boring breakdown of what next seasons roster could look like.

Say Murray gets dumped fully (seems likely in a Mrazek-lite trade at the draft), Samsonov is re-signed ($3.5mil) and then the trio of UFAs I think most people want back are re-signed (ROR $5mil, Acciari $1.5mil, Schenn $1mil):

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
______-ROR-Marner
Knies-______-Jarnkrok
McMann-Acciari-Lafferty

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Assuming a $83.5mil cap ceiling that roster leaves you with $8.5mil in cap space to get a couple of middle-6 forwards. Probably more than a lot of contending teams. 

That's actually a pretty good lineup. Still, I'd be interested in a Parayko type for the back end, or at least some sort of substantial upgrade on D. I'm really not sold on McCabe, or Schenn as a full season top 4.

I still look enviously at the Chykrun deal the sens made.

 

[Bender]

I was poking around in cap friendly, and if they can dump Murray, the Leafs will actually have a good amount of cap space next year.

It's actually a fair bit more than I even thought. Let's just do a basic/boring breakdown of what next seasons roster could look like.

Say Murray gets dumped fully (seems likely in a Mrazek-lite trade at the draft), Samsonov is re-signed ($3.5mil) and then the trio of UFAs I think most people want back are re-signed (ROR $5mil, Acciari $1.5mil, Schenn $1mil):

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
______-ROR-Marner
Knies-______-Jarnkrok
McMann-Acciari-Lafferty

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Assuming a $83.5mil cap ceiling that roster leaves you with $8.5mil in cap space to get a couple of middle-6 forwards. Probably more than a lot of contending teams. 

That really isn't that bad at all. I mean, you definitely have options. Ideally you get a higher end 3C but I'd also like to get an upgrade on D prior to the deadline. I think all those deadline deals were in retrospect too many. The team I thought looked pretty disjointed from the deadline on and never really got into that groove of steamrolling opponents. I'm also not opposed at trading Nylander or Marner and redistributing that extra cash for depth pieces we've been looking for.

 

[rdowdall]

What about the annual Denis Malgin ExperimentTM .

Oh that is an awesome band name.

 

[rdowdall]

I was poking around in cap friendly, and if they can dump Murray, the Leafs will actually have a good amount of cap space next year.

It's actually a fair bit more than I even thought. Let's just do a basic/boring breakdown of what next seasons roster could look like.

Say Murray gets dumped fully (seems likely in a Mrazek-lite trade at the draft), Samsonov is re-signed ($3.5mil) and then the trio of UFAs I think most people want back are re-signed (ROR $5mil, Acciari $1.5mil, Schenn $1mil):

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
______-ROR-Marner
Knies-______-Jarnkrok
McMann-Acciari-Lafferty

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Assuming a $83.5mil cap ceiling that roster leaves you with $8.5mil in cap space to get a couple of middle-6 forwards. Probably more than a lot of contending teams. 

That really isn't that bad at all. I mean, you definitely have options. Ideally you get a higher end 3C but I'd also like to get an upgrade on D prior to the deadline. I think all those deadline deals were in retrospect too many. The team I thought looked pretty disjointed from the deadline on and never really got into that groove of steamrolling opponents. I'm also not opposed at trading Nylander or Marner and redistributing that extra cash for depth pieces we've been looking for.

I would like Kampf to come back as the 4c

 

[Bill33]

And hey, there's NRob for the 17 minutes of ice before he's injured for the next season.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Do any of the other Marlies have an opportunity to make the jump?

Holmberg?
Steeves?
Abruzzese?