2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
If he's still got a nagging injury come March then sure, maybe it's something you consider to get him fully healthy for playoffs. But we're a long, long ways from that right now.
It's actually 20 games from the deadline to the end of season, but yeah basically.
If he's genuinely hurt around that time it could be worth doing that but that's still a long stretch of games where the team will likely be battling for home-ice advantage. So obviously sitting Matthews for 20 games isn't exactly an easy call to make even if we are using the additional cap space to bring in some players.
Ozzie
Member
You mean pull a "Kucherov"?
It only resulted in a Stanley Cup.
Plus our PP would be top in league.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
Tampa can shove their Covid cups in a sack.
Arn
Active member
So.
It's even more obvious with Matthews and Pacioretty out.
But, how do you even start to fix the bottom 6? The anaemic output from there is in turn going to make it much easier to shut down the top 2 lines.
And shutting down the top 2 lines is what has been an issue when it comes to playoffs.
Playing a "north/south" game isn't going to turn Kampf, Reaves, Holmberg etc into scoring machines.
It also seems to actually be hamstringing our top players. I allow for it still being early in adopting a new play style, but...
It's even more obvious with Matthews and Pacioretty out.
But, how do you even start to fix the bottom 6? The anaemic output from there is in turn going to make it much easier to shut down the top 2 lines.
And shutting down the top 2 lines is what has been an issue when it comes to playoffs.
Playing a "north/south" game isn't going to turn Kampf, Reaves, Holmberg etc into scoring machines.
It also seems to actually be hamstringing our top players. I allow for it still being early in adopting a new play style, but...
A lot of teams I feel like rely on an injection of youth in times like these. The Leafs options there are probably still just a little bit ways away. Like a temporary McMann/Robertson-Minten-Grebenkin line could provide some much needed energy but they probably want Minten and Grebenkin to cook a little more in the AHL.
Arn
Active member
Of the current bottom 6 the only ones that I really feel are potential impact players are Lorentz and Robertson. And Robertson has yet to get much done, all be it he's definitely trying.
I wonder if at some point the bullet gets bitten and as you say you have to run a sheltered third line that's something like XXX1-Minten-Robertson with a 4th line of Lorentz -XXX2-Grebenkin where XXX1 is some kind of "veteran" winger and XXX2 is some kind of Kampf replacement who costs less and maybe chips in a few more points.
Or Minten could do something on the 4th and you bring in a second line centre to bump Tavares down to line 3.
I don't even know if that would score more or be more balanced.
Every time you look at it, it really does just feel like spreading Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares over 3 lines is the best use of existing resources.
I wonder if at some point the bullet gets bitten and as you say you have to run a sheltered third line that's something like XXX1-Minten-Robertson with a 4th line of Lorentz -XXX2-Grebenkin where XXX1 is some kind of "veteran" winger and XXX2 is some kind of Kampf replacement who costs less and maybe chips in a few more points.
Or Minten could do something on the 4th and you bring in a second line centre to bump Tavares down to line 3.
I don't even know if that would score more or be more balanced.
Every time you look at it, it really does just feel like spreading Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares over 3 lines is the best use of existing resources.
I give him some slack because we haven't even reached 20 games yet, but...I'm having a hard time figuring out what Berube is trying to do with the bottom-6. Does he want a scoring line and a defensive line, a defensive line and a crash line (like the Islanders had with Martin for many years), something else. Right now it's just a mismatched collection of parts that don't work well together. I assume he is evaluating everyone and will go to Treliving and say "here is what I need" at some point. Maybe another 10 games? Whether those needs can be acquired is another matter.
Grebenkin looked like a very intriguing player in preseason - looked like he could slot in right away to me. Looked more willing to play a physical game than say McMann, more skilled than most of the other bottom-6. I understand if they want to let him acclimate for a while longer but I would expect him to get a look at some point. No one else on the Marlies has ever really impressed me - at best, most of them including Steeves, Abru-however you spell his name, and others all look like Holmberg clones. Nylander looked like a Robertson who doesn't try as hard. Minten, maybe eventually he grows into a third line center role but I don't think he's ready.
It could be tough given various constraints to really put together what Berube would like. I am in favor of the 3-line approach. Even now with Mattews and Patches out, you could give each of Marner/Tavares/Nylander a line and see what happens.
Grebenkin looked like a very intriguing player in preseason - looked like he could slot in right away to me. Looked more willing to play a physical game than say McMann, more skilled than most of the other bottom-6. I understand if they want to let him acclimate for a while longer but I would expect him to get a look at some point. No one else on the Marlies has ever really impressed me - at best, most of them including Steeves, Abru-however you spell his name, and others all look like Holmberg clones. Nylander looked like a Robertson who doesn't try as hard. Minten, maybe eventually he grows into a third line center role but I don't think he's ready.
It could be tough given various constraints to really put together what Berube would like. I am in favor of the 3-line approach. Even now with Mattews and Patches out, you could give each of Marner/Tavares/Nylander a line and see what happens.
I didn't either. Wish we had more players like that. Sometimes I find myself imagining an alternative universe where Matthews has even a little bit of Messier in him. Sigh.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
Which would be great, but with how fragile Matthews upper body seems to be, I'm not sure we want him cracking heads(and knuckles).
OldTimeHockey
Active member
I agree that Lorentz and Robertson are only really upwards trending potential. (In regards to Kampf, I'm not sure why we are always trying to offload him).
And I will maintain, that spreading out your talent does not lead to success. It always looks good on paper but it rarely works. You're weakening your top lines to try and strengthen your bottom lines. Your top lines are going to continue to carry most of your scoring. Taking talent off those lines will effect the top two groups more than it will benefit the 3rd line. Tavares is looking like he's going to put up at least 30 goals. That's a direct result of playing with Nylander. If you drop him to the 3rd line and saddle him with 2 people that can't get him the puck, and less ice time, you're going to see a significant drop in his production. And moving Robertson, or whoever to the 2nd line is not going to offset that. If a ppg, 30 goal scoring, 2nd line centre comes available and you can squeeze him under the cap, by all means, do it. But unless that's happening, you have no choice but to run two, top-heavy, lines. I mean, look at what's happened when the team is struggling, they've actually tried to overload a single line (last night was Nylander, Tavares, Marner). Spreading out talent, only weakens talent. Unless said talent is a McDavid or Crosby, that can carry a line.
Arn
Active member
That’s all very fair comment and definitely an unintended consequence of trying to fix something else,
I just feel like the biggest issue is the make up of and lack of scoring from those bottom 2 lines.
So if that can be somehow improved the three ways of doing so are probably changing the make up of them either by trade, prospects or spreading the talent. I don’t think we have the prospects, not sure where a trade could come from so that leaves the last option which probably isn’t my favourite and as you say actually probably isn’t a great solution at all
I just feel like the biggest issue is the make up of and lack of scoring from those bottom 2 lines.
So if that can be somehow improved the three ways of doing so are probably changing the make up of them either by trade, prospects or spreading the talent. I don’t think we have the prospects, not sure where a trade could come from so that leaves the last option which probably isn’t my favourite and as you say actually probably isn’t a great solution at all
