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Armchair GM Thread 2024-25

If Pageau gets bought out as well...

Knies-Matthews-Nylander
Skinner-Tavares-Marner
McMann-Pageau-Jarnkrok

Would be a well balanced top-9 forward group including a legitimate checking line as well. Puts Cowan on the 4th line to start but there would be PP and probably even PK opportunities for him too. And as someone who can play either wing he'll easily jump up for injuries.

Buy low contracts for Skinner and Pageau means lots of money left over for D and G.
 
cabber24 said:
For Marner:

Gustavsson/Brodin
Thompson/Theodore
Sorokin/Dobson
Kadri/Andersson
Utah: 2 first-round picks
Owen Power
Owen Power is the only deal I'd look at. Dobson is nice but not taking Sorokin @ 8x8.25M. Brodin @ 6M and Gus was terrible last year at 3.75M. Both Theo and Thompson are UFAs after next season so unless there's extensions in place. 5x7M for Kadri who is turning 34 to start next season? Def no.
 
cabber24 said:
For Marner:

Gustavsson/Brodin
Thompson/Theodore
Sorokin/Dobson
Kadri/Andersson
Utah: 2 first-round picks
Owen Power

There is not going to be any Marner trade. I am fairly confident that Marner?s camp will veto any trade, and knowing this the other GMs offers will suck. And Teliving isn?t clever enough to turn this into anything.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I believe there are only 2 outcomes. A detention, or Marner leaves as a UFA.
 
Joe said:
cabber24 said:
For Marner:

Gustavsson/Brodin
Thompson/Theodore
Sorokin/Dobson
Kadri/Andersson
Utah: 2 first-round picks
Owen Power

There is not going to be any Marner trade. I am fairly confident that Marner?s camp will veto any trade, and knowing this the other GMs offers will suck. And Teliving isn?t clever enough to turn this into anything.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I believe there are only 2 outcomes. A detention, or Marner leaves as a UFA.

Leafs fans being put into detention after another first round bounce.
 
Zee said:
Joe said:
cabber24 said:
For Marner:

Gustavsson/Brodin
Thompson/Theodore
Sorokin/Dobson
Kadri/Andersson
Utah: 2 first-round picks
Owen Power

There is not going to be any Marner trade. I am fairly confident that Marner?s camp will veto any trade, and knowing this the other GMs offers will suck. And Teliving isn?t clever enough to turn this into anything.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I believe there are only 2 outcomes. A detention, or Marner leaves as a UFA.

Leafs fans being put into detention after another first round bounce.
This is what I think will happen, take 9!

Everyone that defends his play points at his stats what about the whinny BS and the required tip-toeing around this guy? I wonder if the team culture would improve without him.
 
I actually think, even though the window of opportunity is painfully short, and the cards are all stacked on one side, that the situation is ripe for Marner to OK a move.

Marner's NMC puts all the power in his hands, and yet, I think something will get done here. Here's why I think so:

a) The Leafs want to move on. We can go on and on about how they should have done it earlier, but we can't change the past. They want to remodel the purpose of the roster to suit the new GM and Coach's philosophy of playoff success. Marner was a perfect match for how Dubas and Keefe wanted to succeed. He might technically still fit in the new scheme, but he also presents the most expedient trade chip to turn over the roster model.

b) Marner and co. have this desperate need to be loved/valued. That's adulation, accolades, recognition, the bizarre requirement for a shared letter on the jersey, and most importantly, the cha-ching-cha-ching. For the most part, it is deserved! However, he also struggles mightily with the other side of that sword, the part that cuts him repeatedly when things are not so good (and his camp seems to exacerbate this). From what I've observed, Shanahan/Dubas created whole new departments (multiple acclaimed sports performance psychologists) and changed traditions (Moms trip instead of Dads Trip) to help him play happy.
Edit: just my armchair psychologizing and solely my observed opinion over the years

c) 10.9+M is a heavy cap hit, but the actual salary is a pittance, esp. after July 1 hits and the 7M bonus is paid out. The cap is finally going up again in pretty goofy big steps. There are options for a sign and trade, or just a straight trade and eventual signing for Marner to get 8 years at a crazy good for him number.

d) The Leafs have a funny (recent) history of jettisoning a good player the front office has deemed a liability or superfluous and that player has gone on immediately to Cup contention/winning. Laughably so. Even if Marner wasn't an elite superstar, there'd be suitors for a prime aged productive and decorated forward that normally never sees free agency. This is an easy sell for other GMs to their ownership to open their wallets.

e) Tkachuk recently winning the Cup after being traded by Treliving should make other teams salivate. We need to leverage that (silly) free marketing to a more than reasonable return.

f) While Marner probably feels he can generate the most points here in Toronto, alongside Matthews, it would, at best, net a 7 year deal because it will not be the Leafs signing it. And it will likely feel friggin' awful throughout the season, which we all know will negatively affect his impact on the ice. When he sees how much other teams want him, how much they're willing to spend on him, and how much quieter it should be (save for the two games against Toronto), well, he can find his best self there.

g) No one believes what Dreger was regurgitating as his own thoughts about the Leafs being more open to re-signing Marner than trading him. That is clear-cut posturing from Ferris so that when there is a trade to be made, Marner looks like the really good guy who unselfishly sacrificed his own dream to help his childhood team.
 
Zee said:
Joe said:
cabber24 said:
For Marner:

Gustavsson/Brodin
Thompson/Theodore
Sorokin/Dobson
Kadri/Andersson
Utah: 2 first-round picks
Owen Power

There is not going to be any Marner trade. I am fairly confident that Marner?s camp will veto any trade, and knowing this the other GMs offers will suck. And Teliving isn?t clever enough to turn this into anything.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I believe there are only 2 outcomes. A detention, or Marner leaves as a UFA.

Leafs fans being put into detention after another first round bounce.

lol. Well placed typo. I meant retention.
 
cabber24 said:
Zee said:
Joe said:
cabber24 said:
For Marner:

Gustavsson/Brodin
Thompson/Theodore
Sorokin/Dobson
Kadri/Andersson
Utah: 2 first-round picks
Owen Power

There is not going to be any Marner trade. I am fairly confident that Marner?s camp will veto any trade, and knowing this the other GMs offers will suck. And Teliving isn?t clever enough to turn this into anything.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I believe there are only 2 outcomes. A detention, or Marner leaves as a UFA.

Leafs fans being put into detention after another first round bounce.
This is what I think will happen, take 9!

Everyone that defends his play points at his stats what about the whinny BS and the required tip-toeing around this guy? I wonder if the team culture would improve without him.

I don?t understand your point. Are you criticizing me for sharing a personal opinion on a message board?
 
herman said:
b) Marner and co. have this desperate need to be loved/valued. That's adulation, accolades, recognition, the bizarre requirement for a shared letter on the jersey, and most importantly, the cha-ching-cha-ching. For the most part, it is deserved! However, he also struggles mightily with the other side of that sword, the part that cuts him repeatedly when things are not so good (and his camp seems to exacerbate this). From what I've observed, Shanahan/Dubas created whole new departments (multiple acclaimed sports performance psychologists) and changed traditions (Moms trip instead of Dads Trip) to help him play happy.

I wanna start all this by saying I like and respect you and think you know that, and 90% of your entire post was certainly valid, but this sort of stuff sounds like it comes from the grumblings of someone who keeps a Mitch Marner voodoo doll by their night stand. Like the sports psychologist stuff is just standard in the game now. I don't know where the whole dads trip story came from but the Leafs have only ever done one Moms trip. Having the dads is just more common everywhere. I don't know why but I'm 99.9% sure it's not because Marner demanded or wanted it. Marner may have a "desperate need" to be loved but that's something for a therapist to say, not a fan who's (presumably) never spoken to him.
 
herman said:
g) No one believes what Dreger was regurgitating as his own thoughts about the Leafs being more open to re-signing Marner than trading him. That is clear-cut posturing from Ferris so that when there is a trade to be made, Marner looks like the really good guy who unselfishly sacrificed his own dream to help his childhood team.

I doubt that conclusion.

Even the Leafs GM acknowledged Marner controls his destiny with his NMC. A simple blunt fact.

Apparently, Dreger has some connection to Marner's agent. He did for the last deal.
Lebrun echoed something roughly similar.

The message Lebrun conveyed was that Marner is no longer talking about a contract extension until after the season starts and his intention is to start the season in Toronto. Dreger conveyed that the Leafs are coming around to the notion of an extension - because Marner doesn't want to be traded.

When the crazy Utah rumour was posted on Twitter, Marner and the Leafs vehemently shot it down and were reported to be upset by it. When Elliotte Friedman reported on the Marner situation, he said it was a no win because no matter what he said people on both sides were getting mad.

So, if the guy has agreed to being traded, why is he getting so upset about the trade rumours (- something that would be true)? He's leaving town. Why should he care at that point? That is more like the behavior of someone who is intent on sticking around - as his fans are being misled and may turn against him like they did Sundin. And the Leafs reaction trying to shut it down and getting upset themselves - why should they care so much if they're about to send him packing? Again, the sensitivity and the anger bely a management team that doesn't want this player pissed off at them over this.

I'm largely and generally with Joe, Lebrun & Dreger. There is no blessing for a trade at this time. There isn't likely going to be one any time soon. It will likely end with retention, departure as a UFA or a small chance that he gets fed up during the season and allows them to trade him without a contract for next season (which is very doubtful because that will hurt their playoff chances). That is consistent with what his agent wanted all along: to get him to a UFA position toward the end of this season. It also fits with not hurting his UFA destination team because he can go there for no talent cost - which helps his future team.

When the dust settles, Treliving will say to save face and preserve their relationship "we kicked tires but it was complicated with the high cap hit and we didn't like the return" ... which takes a bunch of the heat off Marner to keep the door ajar for them to avoid losing him for nothing (which Dreger says they're coming around to).

Anything is possible in this life but I continue to have major doubts Marner is going anywhere anytime soon.
 
278xmg.jpg

I?m online too much
 
I think the Marner situation will play out similar to Nylanders. But structured more like Matthews. The bet on yourself season. Again. I think the retention happens just after the 4 Nations cup about Feb 20 similar to Nylander signing mid January. I feel he will sign for 5 years 62.5 Million. 12.5 for 5. Similar to Matthews signing for 5 know what the cap will be. Then he is a UFA at 32 when the cap will be over 100 Million.
 
[youtube]9oyAROLVTmo[/youtube]
Dreger: ?Marner?s looking forward to playing for Berube, Berube?s looking forward to coaching Marner

Dreger also reports that if a team called Treliving about Marner he'd listen. But their focus is on adding a couple of dmen and a goalie.

They got talking about Pesce and Dreger said if his contract got too high, they'd have to look elsewhere. The host said (paraphrased) "maybe that's our answer on Marner - they are not planning and spending as if they've got his cap money to acquire players."

There was another discussion (I don't think in the above video) about Bertuzzi & Domi. Both of them are waiting for the Leafs to get back to them. If they had Marner money to spend ... they could but so far, crickets. I do not see how they could add 2 top 4 dmen, a goalie, their RFAs and re-sign Bertuzzi for $5 mil. They would have to have more cap space.

I heard David Pagnotta reiterate the anger of Marner's agent and the Leafs over the Utah rumour.

They're trying to re-sign RFA (with arbitration) Liljegren - might make it easier to trade him and they might get more for him.

The tough part for us now is some of these desirable dmen and goalies might get re-signed by their own teams before July 1. About 25 UFAs re-signed in the last month or so last year.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
b) Marner and co. have this desperate need to be loved/valued. That's adulation, accolades, recognition, the bizarre requirement for a shared letter on the jersey, and most importantly, the cha-ching-cha-ching. For the most part, it is deserved! However, he also struggles mightily with the other side of that sword, the part that cuts him repeatedly when things are not so good (and his camp seems to exacerbate this). From what I've observed, Shanahan/Dubas created whole new departments (multiple acclaimed sports performance psychologists) and changed traditions (Moms trip instead of Dads Trip) to help him play happy.

I wanna start all this by saying I like and respect you and think you know that, and 90% of your entire post was certainly valid, but this sort of stuff sounds like it comes from the grumblings of someone who keeps a Mitch Marner voodoo doll by their night stand. Like the sports psychologist stuff is just standard in the game now. I don't know where the whole dads trip story came from but the Leafs have only ever done one Moms trip. Having the dads is just more common everywhere. I don't know why but I'm 99.9% sure it's not because Marner demanded or wanted it. Marner may have a "desperate need" to be loved but that's something for a therapist to say, not a fan who's (presumably) never spoken to him.

I appreciate you calling me out. You're right, it's over the top speculation and outside the bounds of hockey, and I'm certainly not qualified. I've added a disclaimer to the original.

RE: The parents' trips; when Dubas took the reins, he switched it to a Mom's trip in 2018. Subsequent trips appear to have been cancelled for Covid season reasons until 2023.

Not trying to defend my position, per se, but just pointing out that Dubas and Keefe believed in Marner's gamebreaking ability and did everything in their control to keep him in good-Marner mode -- not at Marner's behest but in recognition of what they believed made him most effective. How it played out though is everyone else might get raked over by the coach publicly once in awhile, but one guy clearly received different treatment. Let me reiterate again I don't think this what Marner was asking for or insisted on with his clout.
 
Treliving quote yesterday:

"Mitch is a superstar in the league," Treliving said. "I'd caution us to not pay too much attention to some of the noise. We can't react to all of this.

"You can't control the rumours that are out there."

My edit of his quote:

"I'd caution us to not pay too much"
 
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
Who do we all want in the 1st round of the draft then?

Kleber, 6'6" RHD who can skate and carry the biscuit.

Yes please.

And his name is close enough to Keebler cookies that many great cookie analogies could be made when he plays
 
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