Coronavirus

[Kin]

So were is the problem with this?

And your clinical/scientific education is in what field? And the evidence for your claims were peer reviewed and published where? And you're sure you passed the test to not just be informed but super informed?

 

[Kin]

Better for a re-view of Doctor Zhivago to see the real effects of revolution. Comrade.  "There is no personal life in Russia anymore".  "Strelnikov

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor from sleeping under bridges, begging for money and stealing bread."

- Anatole France

 

[bustaheims]

Great post! If there's no money in it big Pharma is not interested. I use 3000mg of C daily and more if I feel the need. I have a weakened immune system and was constantly dealing with infections to the point that many antibiotics no longer work for me. Since I started using vitamin C  for internal infections and oregano oil for scratches, cuts and burns I have been antibiotic free for over 5 years.

Thank goodness those supplements and vitamins are free and completely not created and sold by profitable corporations.

And you?ll never guess who many of those corporations are!

 

[Phileas Fogg]

These conversations always go the same way

1. Make a health claim with poorly reviewed or minimal basis in science and yell "get educated" at everyone.
2. Provide out of context links and 3rd party articles
3. Yell "big pharma" repeatedly
4. Cut bait with "well, it works for me! And my cat has never been healthier!"

shampoo, rinse, repeat. Do the chocolate pudding cups have more value in the barter economy due to all the antioxidants? I'm trying to maximize my return in foil covered convenience foods.

 

[TimKerr]

I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand).  I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products.  He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain what?s listed on the bottle. 

Vitamins and natural products in general have never killed people except in certain cases compared to the number of people who die from medication complications in hospitals (and that is a well-known fact).

https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages

Also, I?d like to remind you that the FDA has never approved of a single natural product.  They are stacked with former Pharma executives who march to each other?s beat.  The FDA was originally set up by pharmaceuticals to push their own interests. 

In Ontario, under the premiership of the David Peterson government, then health minister Monte Kwinter passed legislation that to this day stands:

https://vitalitymagazine.com/article/ode-great-politician/amp/

The incredible na?vet? of some of you people on this board is mind boggling.  It?s pretty obvious none of you know next to nothing about the history of medicine, pharmaceuticals, herbal medicine, the struggles some doctors went through in helping their patients achieve better health vs medical boards, mistreatment of women by mainstream medicine (from the past), etc., etc.

I know what I?m doing with my health.  While it still isn?t where it should be and may never be, it?s helping me cope with whatever symptoms I have to keep me alive and to be able to enjoy Leafs hockey.

Natural/integrative medical modalities have saved my life and I continue to stand by it.  While I am currently under no prescribed medications, I understand that they too can be life-saving. 

Once again, let me reiterate that no one is advocating people throw out their medicines, but if there is a way to a 50-50 approach or even greater, then all the better for patient outcome.  Medications all have side-defects, it practically comes with the territory and there really isn?t much one can do about some greater and some minor, and taking them whatever they may be can cause long-term organ and general health damage to cells. 
Many doctors privately believe herbs are better than drugs, just as effective in the longer term.  Herbs have been around for thousands of years, long before pharmaceuticals were ever invented.

Everything has it?s risks ?do not self-medicate not even for natural products, always seek out the advice of a healthcare practitioner ? which is why a pragmatic, practical, and realistic approach for one?s health is truly the best advice.

Let?s face it, nutrition and health & wellness have become the lexicon on everyone?s lips.  It runs the gamut from health professionals to exercise & wellness experts.
What some of us may not know is that many of those in the natural medicine field were long endorsing the usage of supplementation in it?s various forms, healthy eating habits, body/mind de stressing techniques, etcetera, etcetera, way before anyone had ever heard of it en masse.  That?s who we have to thank long before the science behind it.

Great post! If there's no money in it big Pharma is not interested.

Unlike all the other corporations who develop and sell their products for free to the general public.

 

[Bender]

I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand).  I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products.  He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain what?s listed on the bottle. 

Vitamins and natural products in general have never killed people except in certain cases compared to the number of people who die from medication complications in hospitals (and that is a well-known fact).

https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages

Also, I?d like to remind you that the FDA has never approved of a single natural product.  They are stacked with former Pharma executives who march to each other?s beat.  The FDA was originally set up by pharmaceuticals to push their own interests. 

In Ontario, under the premiership of the David Peterson government, then health minister Monte Kwinter passed legislation that to this day stands:

https://vitalitymagazine.com/article/ode-great-politician/amp/

The incredible na?vet? of some of you people on this board is mind boggling.  It?s pretty obvious none of you know next to nothing about the history of medicine, pharmaceuticals, herbal medicine, the struggles some doctors went through in helping their patients achieve better health vs medical boards, mistreatment of women by mainstream medicine (from the past), etc., etc.

I know what I?m doing with my health.  While it still isn?t where it should be and may never be, it?s helping me cope with whatever symptoms I have to keep me alive and to be able to enjoy Leafs hockey. [emoji846]

Natural/integrative medical modalities have saved my life and I continue to stand by it.  While I am currently under no prescribed medications, I understand that they too can be life-saving. 

Once again, let me reiterate that no one is advocating people throw out their medicines, but if there is a way to a 50-50 approach or even greater, then all the better for patient outcome.  Medications all have side-defects, it practically comes with the territory and there really isn?t much one can do about some greater and some minor, and taking them whatever they may be can cause long-term organ and general health damage to cells. 
Many doctors privately believe herbs are better than drugs, just as effective in the longer term.  Herbs have been around for thousands of years, long before pharmaceuticals were ever invented.

Everything has it?s risks ?do not self-medicate not even for natural products, always seek out the advice of a healthcare practitioner ? which is why a pragmatic, practical, and realistic approach for one?s health is truly the best advice.

Let?s face it, nutrition and health & wellness have become the lexicon on everyone?s lips.  It runs the gamut from health professionals to exercise & wellness experts.
What some of us may not know is that many of those in the natural medicine field were long endorsing the usage of supplementation in it?s various forms, healthy eating habits, body/mind de stressing techniques, etcetera, etcetera, way before anyone had ever heard of it en masse.  That?s who we have to thank long before the science behind it.

Great post! If there's no money in it big Pharma is not interested. I use 3000mg of C daily and more if I feel the need. I have a weakened immune system and was constantly dealing with infections to the point that many antibiotics no longer work for me. Since I started using vitamin C  for internal infections and oregano oil for scratches, cuts and burns I have been antibiotic free for over 5 years.

Academic researchers make a lot less money than you think to publish most work and generally disclose any additional funding.

If something were effective generally pharma companies would want it. I don't like the idea of profiteering off illness but the idea that treatments are withheld because theres no money in it is asinine. The coldfx people are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[hockeyfan1]

I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand).  I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products.  He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain what?s listed on the bottle. 
....

I hope you've conferred with your primary care physician. That's more than 10 times the safe upper limit for an adult and more than 60 times the recommended amount. 50,000 IUs could very well be contributing to ill health.

We all have the right to make our own decisions about our health (except for children), but when you're going that far out of the scientifically accepted range, that can be dangerous.

And, hopefully, that primary care physician is a fully licensed medical doctor, with the Doctorate of Medicine to confirm that status. The overwhelming majority of naturopath simply have not had the kind of education required to be dispensing advice when it relates to such abnormally high amounts of vitamins, minerals, or any other substance.

I don?t just go to any ordinary Naturopath.  My doctor is an MD/Integrative/ Natural Medicine with a M. of Sc. in Nutritional Biochemistry.

My family physician is the general family doctor.  She specializes in Internal Medicine.  She trusts my healthcare practitioner with the nutrition as she can see how it has benefitted me via analysis, etc.

I started off with 5,000 IUs.  That did nothing.  10,000.  25,000. Eventually, the 50,000 IUs mark was enough to show sufficient Vit D intake.  Of course, in my situation a certain megadose may be required, perhaps not for the longer term, but for most ordinary people a dosage of between 2000 - 5000 IUs is more than adequate.

Most health experts which includes the standardized dosage of Vit D peg a normal dosage at 2,000 IUs for each individual.  My naturopath has researched this, wrote about it, spoken about, and has seen the benefits with not the usual dosage but with a slightly higher dosage which he knows it to be far more beneficial for most people.

 

[Bender]

I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand).  I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products.  He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain what?s listed on the bottle. 
....

I hope you've conferred with your primary care physician. That's more than 10 times the safe upper limit for an adult and more than 60 times the recommended amount. 50,000 IUs could very well be contributing to ill health.

We all have the right to make our own decisions about our health (except for children), but when you're going that far out of the scientifically accepted range, that can be dangerous.

And, hopefully, that primary care physician is a fully licensed medical doctor, with the Doctorate of Medicine to confirm that status. The overwhelming majority of naturopath simply have not had the kind of education required to be dispensing advice when it relates to such abnormally high amounts of vitamins, minerals, or any other substance.

I don?t just go to any ordinary Naturopath.  My doctor is an MD/Integrative/ Natural Medicine with a M. of Sc. in Nutritional Biochemistry.

My family physician is the general family doctor.  She specializes in Internal Medicine.  She trusts my healthcare practitioner with the nutrition as she can see how it has benefitted me via analysis, etc.

I started off with 5,000 IUs.  That did nothing.  10,000.  25,000. Eventually, the 50,000 IUs mark was enough to show sufficient Vit D intake.  Of course, in my situation a certain megadose may be required, perhaps not for the longer term, but for most ordinary people a dosage of between 2000 - 5000 IUs is more than adequate.

Most health experts which includes the standardized dosage of Vit D peg a normal dosage at 2,000 IUs for each individual.  My naturopath has researched this, wrote about it, spoken about, and has seen the benefits with not the usual dosage but with a slightly higher dosage which he knows it to be far more beneficial for most people.

And therein lies the rub, extraordinary therapies are likely out of the realm of what most people should do or take. The post above is more nuanced than your original take but I still would stress people to speak to a GP they trust before making medical decisions.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(16)31200-1/pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi4gNX38o7oAhUMWN8KHVDDCr0QFjAQegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1AczzlO9i4o7At4vBWZPmc

Not to you in particular but look at this. Vit D supplements alone are worth $600M+/yr. Sounds like a pretty good racket to me.

 

[hockeyfan1]

I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand).  I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products.  He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain what?s listed on the bottle. 
....

I hope you've conferred with your primary care physician. That's more than 10 times the safe upper limit for an adult and more than 60 times the recommended amount. 50,000 IUs could very well be contributing to ill health.

We all have the right to make our own decisions about our health (except for children), but when you're going that far out of the scientifically accepted range, that can be dangerous.

And, hopefully, that primary care physician is a fully licensed medical doctor, with the Doctorate of Medicine to confirm that status. The overwhelming majority of naturopath simply have not had the kind of education required to be dispensing advice when it relates to such abnormally high amounts of vitamins, minerals, or any other substance.

I don?t just go to any ordinary Naturopath.  My doctor is an MD/Integrative/ Natural Medicine with a M. of Sc. in Nutritional Biochemistry.

My family physician is the general family doctor.  She specializes in Internal Medicine.  She trusts my healthcare practitioner with the nutrition as she can see how it has benefitted me via analysis, etc.

I started off with 5,000 IUs.  That did nothing.  10,000.  25,000. Eventually, the 50,000 IUs mark was enough to show sufficient Vit D intake.  Of course, in my situation a certain megadose may be required, perhaps not for the longer term, but for most ordinary people a dosage of between 2000 - 5000 IUs is more than adequate.

Most health experts which includes the standardized dosage of Vit D peg a normal dosage at 2,000 IUs for each individual.  My naturopath has researched this, wrote about it, spoken about, and has seen the benefits with not the usual dosage but with a slightly higher dosage which he knows it to be far more beneficial for most people.

And therein lies the rub, extraordinary therapies are likely out of the realm of what most people should do or take. The post above is more nuanced than your original take but I still would stress people to speak to a GP they trust before making medical decisions.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(16)31200-1/pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi4gNX38o7oAhUMWN8KHVDDCr0QFjAQegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1AczzlO9i4o7At4vBWZPmc

Not to you in particular but look at this. Vit D supplements alone are worth $600M+/yr. Sounds like a pretty good racket to me.

ColdFX by the way works very well.  I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.

Most researchers may or may not endeavour to take it upon themselves to discover unique findings.  However, to say that the era of the independent researcher is alive and well is not knowing exactly where it?s really at, nor where it?s really been.

Frederic Banting & Charles Best were probably the last breed of ?independent research scientists? who, by the way, had great respect for herbal medicine, as they claimed it helped their diabetes patients cope better.

This article here explains in details all that goes on in between the Pharma/science/ research connection...and how incredibly corrupted it is:

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001716

That alone is sickening.

There is both good and bad on all sides of the medical equation. 

 

[TimKerr]

[/quote]
ColdFX by the way works very well.  I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.

[/quote]

No, that is the furthest thing from science I can think of. Because you used it once and your cold went away doesn't mean it works. What if your cold was already going to go away? What if you never had a cold and what you had was an allergic reaction that only lasted for a short time? What if I use it and my cold doesn't go away? There are a million variables to be accounted for. This is why vitamins and the like are never FDA approved because they can't prove anything actually works. As for actual medicine, which has to go through years and years of testing and trials before it can go to market.

 

[hockeyfan1]

ColdFX by the way works very well.  I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.

[/quote]

No, that is the furthest thing from science I can think of. Because you used it once and your cold went away doesn't mean it works. What if your cold was already going to go away? What if you never had a cold and what you had was an allergic reaction that only lasted for a short time? What if I use it and my cold doesn't go away? There are a million variables to be accounted for. This is why vitamins and the like are never FDA approved because they can't prove anything actually works. As for actual medicine, which has to go through years and years of testing and trials before it can go to market.

[/quote]

This is the stupidest argument I?ve ever heard.  Are you serious?

Yes, I did try ColdFx, not one actually, but several times and I could feel it working.  I took nothing else.  And the cold doesn?t just ?go away?.  I had a full-fledged cold, sore throat symptoms coming on.

The FDA is full of sh***. 

Vitamins, supplements, and herbs have long been tested and cannot be lumped together with pharmaceuticals.  They need to be tested differently which they have been.

Do you actually believe you exist?

 

[Kin]

These conversations always go the same way

1. Make a health claim with poorly reviewed or minimal basis in science and yell "get educated" at everyone.
2. Provide out of context links and 3rd party articles
3. Yell "big pharma" repeatedly
4. Cut bait with "well, it works for me! And my cat has never been healthier!"

shampoo, rinse, repeat.

As evidenced, you missed out on the stage where they attack the notion of evidence based science altogether because everyone who disagrees with them is either duped by the vast conspiracy or a party to it.

It's tin foil stuff.

 

[TimKerr]

ColdFX by the way works very well.  I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.

No, that is the furthest thing from science I can think of. Because you used it once and your cold went away doesn't mean it works. What if your cold was already going to go away? What if you never had a cold and what you had was an allergic reaction that only lasted for a short time? What if I use it and my cold doesn't go away? There are a million variables to be accounted for. This is why vitamins and the like are never FDA approved because they can't prove anything actually works. As for actual medicine, which has to go through years and years of testing and trials before it can go to market.

[/quote]

This is the stupidest argument I?ve ever heard.  Are you serious?

Yes, I did try ColdFx, not one actually, but several times and I could feel it working.  I took nothing else.  And the cold doesn?t just ?go away?.  I had a full-fledged cold, sore throat symptoms coming on.

The FDA is full of sh***. 

Vitamins, supplements, and herbs have long been tested and cannot be lumped together with pharmaceuticals.  They need to be tested differently which they have been.

Do you actually believe you exist?
[/quote]

Point me to one peer-reviewed scientific paper that shows the efficacy vitamins and supplements. and in typical fashion instead of showing any proof or links you just say "I could feel it working" sounds like science to me. and yes colds just go away or has there been a cure for the common cold that we are all unaware of. Is your argument that if I have a cold and don't take anything that the cold will just stay with me forever?

and you're right the FDA is full of sh** when my uncle had cancer he used a supplement and was miraculously cured none of that FDA approved crap for him and also when my cousin had breast and bowel cancer, same thing. Right to the high end scientitic supplements and was saved forever. Thank God she ignored any of the medicines the FDA approved of.

 

[hockeyfan1]

ColdFX by the way works very well.  I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.

No, that is the furthest thing from science I can think of. Because you used it once and your cold went away doesn't mean it works. What if your cold was already going to go away? What if you never had a cold and what you had was an allergic reaction that only lasted for a short time? What if I use it and my cold doesn't go away? There are a million variables to be accounted for. This is why vitamins and the like are never FDA approved because they can't prove anything actually works. As for actual medicine, which has to go through years and years of testing and trials before it can go to market.

This is the stupidest argument I?ve ever heard.  Are you serious?

Yes, I did try ColdFx, not one actually, but several times and I could feel it working.  I took nothing else.  And the cold doesn?t just ?go away?.  I had a full-fledged cold, sore throat symptoms coming on.

The FDA is full of sh***. 

Vitamins, supplements, and herbs have long been tested and cannot be lumped together with pharmaceuticals.  They need to be tested differently which they have been.

Do you actually believe you exist?
[/quote]

Point me to one peer-reviewed scientific paper that shows the efficacy vitamins and supplements. and in typical fashion instead of showing any proof or links you just say "I could feel it working" sounds like science to me. and yes colds just go away or has there been a cure for the common cold that we are all unaware of. Is your argument that if I have a cold and don't take anything that the cold will just stay with me forever?

and you're right the FDA is full of sh** when my uncle had cancer he used a supplement and was miraculously cured none of that FDA approved crap for him and also when my cousin had breast and bowel cancer, same thing. Right to the high end scientitic supplements and was saved forever. Thank God she ignored any of the medicines the FDA approved of.

[/quote]

Does chemotherapy cure anything?  Only if the cancer tumours are in their infancy, then chemo isn?t too bad an approach to take.  But really, I consider chemotherapy to be half quackery because according to researchers, it could  e the chemo that allows the cancer to return with a vigilance.  This may be along the same analogy of the theory of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. 

No one therapy will ever ?cure? cancer or disease.  A multi-faceted approach is what?s required not a one-track approach which is basically what we have in our hospitals.  Furthermore, there is no such thing as a cancer ?cure? per se.  if that?s what everyone?s been looking for, well, my friend, they?ll never find it.  That?s the way conventional medicine operates eschewing other modalities of treatment in conjunction with the present treatment available.

In a hospital, one will be dealing mostly with drugs and surgery.  That is where the research goes, not into any other field.  Pharmaceuticals are the largest provider of medications in hospitals which also means they have an influence in keeping things  as they are.  Big Pharma isn?t stupid.  They know full well the power of plants.  Since it is against the law to patent Mother Nature, they have no use for that side of medicine and instead throughout medical history have chosen to suppress it instead, including doctors who?ve tried to help their patients in the past.  There were countless stories I?ve read that showcased the pressure doctors used to feel from Pharma salesmen to prescribe such and such a drug. 

I?d like to remind you that doctors at the turn of the century were still using herbal medicinals to treat a variety of ailments.  They saw no usage for drugs in those days because what they were using seemed sufficient enough for their patients.
Along came Pastuer and Pharma.  Pasteur with his own wrongful theory of disease ? treating the symptoms rather than the root cause.  His rival B?champs believed in getting to the root cause of disease because without that, the symptoms will always stay with you.  He also believed and proved through his research that the so-called ?germ theory? was not completely responsible for disease mechanisms to flourish, but rather an unbalanced state of the body due to environmental & chemical exposure, including food &  enzymatic imbalances that caused cells to evolve into a weakened state for cancer and other diseases to proliferate.

B?champs & Pasteur were bitter rivals, but, Pasteur?s theory was hailed with great fanfare as pharmaceutical companies saw it as a potential money-maker.  Afterall, there is more money to be made in sickness than in health. 

In later years, after his retirement from research, Pasteur lived in Switzerland not necessarily keeping abreast of medical developments.  He still retained friends in the medical field and upon asking how everything was going, he assumed that with all of the medications that people were actually getting better and their symptoms or abnormalities addressed  accordingly.  He learned quite to the contrary which prompted him to say ?Antoine was right, and I was wrong.  The germ is nothing, the milieu is everything.  My God, what have I unleashed??
Someone should have told him a medical monster in waiting.

And to think that $600M is what the health care field generates is considered piddle in the bucket when one compares to the billions, $Bs of dollars just one pharmaceutical has in it?s arsenal, more than even that of a very small country.
They?ve spread their tentacles far enough.  Not only are they among the world?s most powerful lobbyists, they publish all the medical books, they?ve stacked medical boards with like-minded people to suit their own interests, they?ve been accused (a fact investigated by Dr. Marcia Engel of Harvard) of undermining proper research in universities by corrupting those very places, etc.  The once prestigious New England Journal of Medicine has sadly been corrupted by them as well.  The list is endless.

And you?re telling me that the health food / natural health field is poison and kills people?  That there is no merit in anything that is the opposite of a medication? 

My naturopath / MD references his work and does his due diligence in making sure that what he writes about does indeed have validity of efficacy. 

For most of my life, I never ventured toward natural medicine because I was like the rest of you thinking I don?t need that stuff.  Well, well, well, guess where I?m at today.  There was a time when I too used to think that that was bunk medicine, what?s wrong with the doctors.  Aren?t they supposed to make us well? 
My experience with medicine and doctors has taught me quite the opposite suggestion.  From the time I was three years old, I have gone to an exhaustive number of MDs.  Mainstream medicine never ever offered me any hope because they themselves didn?t know much about the subject matter themselves.

By the time I turned over to natural medicine, it was simply too late to reverse some of my symptoms this condition  has left me with.  (I did not know that my Dr. Rona was covered by OHiP at one time.  This was before he turned private).  I wasn?t about to make the same mistake with my nutrition which propelled me to seek out far better advice than I could ever have hoped for by finally going to him. And I?m glad I did.  It also opened up a world I did not know existed and inspired me (as well as my late brother) to be informed, open-minded, and to learn how to read between the lines, so to speak. 

 

[hockeyfan1]

Please don?t eat the toilet paper!  Masks gone.  Hand sanitizers gone.  Now...toilet paper!!!? 

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/2020/3/9/1_4846008.amp.html

and this:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-canada-supplies-ex/exclusive-millions-of-masks-stockpiled-in-canadas-ontario-expired-before-coronavirus-hit-idUSKBN20W2OG

The facts on masks:
https://time.com/5794729/coronavirus-face-masks/

 

[hockeyfan1]

A bit of disturbing new development:

Some COVID-19 patients say they experienced ?extremely mild? symptoms before testing positive for the novel coronavirus, raising concerns that the virus is being spread by some who don?t realize they?re infected.

For Dr. Miryam Carecchio, a neurologist in Padua, Italy, discovering she was infected, came as a shock.

I had no fever, no cold, no sore throat, and I had no major issues,? she told CTV National News.

The assistant professor at the University of Padua did experience muscle pain in February, she said, so she took some Tylenol, called in sick, and was back to work the following day.

She later experienced changes, including a loss of taste in her mouth, but didn?t think the symptoms were extreme enough to be linked to the COVID-19 outbreak.

?I didn?t feel any of my very minor complaints were consistent with this infection,? she said.

The 37 year old says she was tested ? ?by chance? at the hospital -because she was not ill, had not travelled to a high risk area, and didn?t fit the criteria for testing. Last Thursday she got the news she was positive and had to be quarantined until March 20, her birthday.

?I was surprised,? she said. ?I was a bit scared, I must say.?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/covid-19-patients-say-they-had-no-idea-they-were-ill-1.4845959

 

[Arn]

I mean it's not a new development. That's why places have been quarantining. It's well established that you can carry the illness without really exhibiting symptoms. Just like any other virus. But then you'd probably have said that was "the media scare mongering". That seems to be the response.

As for that other rubbish rant about "big pharma". Jesus Christ.

 

[TimKerr]

ColdFX by the way works very well.  I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.

No, that is the furthest thing from science I can think of. Because you used it once and your cold went away doesn't mean it works. What if your cold was already going to go away? What if you never had a cold and what you had was an allergic reaction that only lasted for a short time? What if I use it and my cold doesn't go away? There are a million variables to be accounted for. This is why vitamins and the like are never FDA approved because they can't prove anything actually works. As for actual medicine, which has to go through years and years of testing and trials before it can go to market.

This is the stupidest argument I?ve ever heard.  Are you serious?

Yes, I did try ColdFx, not one actually, but several times and I could feel it working.  I took nothing else.  And the cold doesn?t just ?go away?.  I had a full-fledged cold, sore throat symptoms coming on.

The FDA is full of sh***. 

Vitamins, supplements, and herbs have long been tested and cannot be lumped together with pharmaceuticals.  They need to be tested differently which they have been.

Do you actually believe you exist?

Point me to one peer-reviewed scientific paper that shows the efficacy vitamins and supplements. and in typical fashion instead of showing any proof or links you just say "I could feel it working" sounds like science to me. and yes colds just go away or has there been a cure for the common cold that we are all unaware of. Is your argument that if I have a cold and don't take anything that the cold will just stay with me forever?

and you're right the FDA is full of sh** when my uncle had cancer he used a supplement and was miraculously cured none of that FDA approved crap for him and also when my cousin had breast and bowel cancer, same thing. Right to the high end scientitic supplements and was saved forever. Thank God she ignored any of the medicines the FDA approved of.

[/quote]

Does chemotherapy cure anything?  Only if the cancer tumours are in their infancy, then chemo isn?t too bad an approach to take.  But really, I consider chemotherapy to be half quackery because according to researchers, it could  e the chemo that allows the cancer to return with a vigilance.  This may be along the same analogy of the theory of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. 

No one therapy will ever ?cure? cancer or disease.  A multi-faceted approach is what?s required not a one-track approach which is basically what we have in our hospitals.  Furthermore, there is no such thing as a cancer ?cure? per se.  if that?s what everyone?s been looking for, well, my friend, they?ll never find it.  That?s the way conventional medicine operates eschewing other modalities of treatment in conjunction with the present treatment available.

In a hospital, one will be dealing mostly with drugs and surgery.  That is where the research goes, not into any other field.  Pharmaceuticals are the largest provider of medications in hospitals which also means they have an influence in keeping things  as they are.  Big Pharma isn?t stupid.  They know full well the power of plants.  Since it is against the law to patent Mother Nature, they have no use for that side of medicine and instead throughout medical history have chosen to suppress it instead, including doctors who?ve tried to help their patients in the past.  There were countless stories I?ve read that showcased the pressure doctors used to feel from Pharma salesmen to prescribe such and such a drug. 

I?d like to remind you that doctors at the turn of the century were still using herbal medicinals to treat a variety of ailments.  They saw no usage for drugs in those days because what they were using seemed sufficient enough for their patients.
Along came Pastuer and Pharma.  Pasteur with his own wrongful theory of disease ? treating the symptoms rather than the root cause.  His rival B?champs believed in getting to the root cause of disease because without that, the symptoms will always stay with you.  He also believed and proved through his research that the so-called ?germ theory? was not completely responsible for disease mechanisms to flourish, but rather an unbalanced state of the body due to environmental & chemical exposure, including food &  enzymatic imbalances that caused cells to evolve into a weakened state for cancer and other diseases to proliferate.

B?champs & Pasteur were bitter rivals, but, Pasteur?s theory was hailed with great fanfare as pharmaceutical companies saw it as a potential money-maker.  Afterall, there is more money to be made in sickness than in health. 

In later years, after his retirement from research, Pasteur lived in Switzerland not necessarily keeping abreast of medical developments.  He still retained friends in the medical field and upon asking how everything was going, he assumed that with all of the medications that people were actually getting better and their symptoms or abnormalities addressed  accordingly.  He learned quite to the contrary which prompted him to say ?Antoine was right, and I was wrong.  The germ is nothing, the milieu is everything.  My God, what have I unleashed??
Someone should have told him a medical monster in waiting.

And to think that $600M is what the health care field generates is considered piddle in the bucket when one compares to the billions, $Bs of dollars just one pharmaceutical has in it?s arsenal, more than even that of a very small country.
They?ve spread their tentacles far enough.  Not only are they among the world?s most powerful lobbyists, they publish all the medical books, they?ve stacked medical boards with like-minded people to suit their own interests, they?ve been accused (a fact investigated by Dr. Marcia Engel of Harvard) of undermining proper research in universities by corrupting those very places, etc.  The once prestigious New England Journal of Medicine has sadly been corrupted by them as well.  The list is endless.

And you?re telling me that the health food / natural health field is poison and kills people?  That there is no merit in anything that is the opposite of a medication? 

My naturopath / MD references his work and does his due diligence in making sure that what he writes about does indeed have validity of efficacy. 

For most of my life, I never ventured toward natural medicine because I was like the rest of you thinking I don?t need that stuff.  Well, well, well, guess where I?m at today.  There was a time when I too used to think that that was bunk medicine, what?s wrong with the doctors.  Aren?t they supposed to make us well? 
My experience with medicine and doctors has taught me quite the opposite suggestion.  From the time I was three years old, I have gone to an exhaustive number of MDs.  Mainstream medicine never ever offered me any hope because they themselves didn?t know much about the subject matter themselves.

By the time I turned over to natural medicine, it was simply too late to reverse some of my symptoms this condition  has left me with.  (I did not know that my Dr. Rona was covered by OHiP at one time.  This was before he turned private).  I wasn?t about to make the same mistake with my nutrition which propelled me to seek out far better advice than I could ever have hoped for by finally going to him. And I?m glad I did.  It also opened up a world I did not know existed and inspired me (as well as my late brother) to be informed, open-minded, and to learn how to read between the lines, so to speak.
[/quote]

I asked for one peer reviewed paper and you go on a rant the likes of which would be more applicable on infowars.com.
I have finished discussing this. Hope you enjoy the rest of your week.

 

[Bender]

ColdFX by the way works very well.  I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.

No, that is the furthest thing from science I can think of. Because you used it once and your cold went away doesn't mean it works. What if your cold was already going to go away? What if you never had a cold and what you had was an allergic reaction that only lasted for a short time? What if I use it and my cold doesn't go away? There are a million variables to be accounted for. This is why vitamins and the like are never FDA approved because they can't prove anything actually works. As for actual medicine, which has to go through years and years of testing and trials before it can go to market.

This is the stupidest argument I?ve ever heard.  Are you serious?

Yes, I did try ColdFx, not one actually, but several times and I could feel it working.  I took nothing else.  And the cold doesn?t just ?go away?.  I had a full-fledged cold, sore throat symptoms coming on.

The FDA is full of sh***. 

Vitamins, supplements, and herbs have long been tested and cannot be lumped together with pharmaceuticals.  They need to be tested differently which they have been.

Do you actually believe you exist?

Point me to one peer-reviewed scientific paper that shows the efficacy vitamins and supplements. and in typical fashion instead of showing any proof or links you just say "I could feel it working" sounds like science to me. and yes colds just go away or has there been a cure for the common cold that we are all unaware of. Is your argument that if I have a cold and don't take anything that the cold will just stay with me forever?

and you're right the FDA is full of sh** when my uncle had cancer he used a supplement and was miraculously cured none of that FDA approved crap for him and also when my cousin had breast and bowel cancer, same thing. Right to the high end scientitic supplements and was saved forever. Thank God she ignored any of the medicines the FDA approved of.

[/quote]

Does chemotherapy cure anything?  Only if the cancer tumours are in their infancy, then chemo isn?t too bad an approach to take.  But really, I consider chemotherapy to be half quackery because according to researchers, it could  e the chemo that allows the cancer to return with a vigilance.  This may be along the same analogy of the theory of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. 

No one therapy will ever ?cure? cancer or disease.  A multi-faceted approach is what?s required not a one-track approach which is basically what we have in our hospitals.  Furthermore, there is no such thing as a cancer ?cure? per se.  if that?s what everyone?s been looking for, well, my friend, they?ll never find it.  That?s the way conventional medicine operates eschewing other modalities of treatment in conjunction with the present treatment available.

In a hospital, one will be dealing mostly with drugs and surgery.  That is where the research goes, not into any other field.  Pharmaceuticals are the largest provider of medications in hospitals which also means they have an influence in keeping things  as they are.  Big Pharma isn?t stupid.  They know full well the power of plants.  Since it is against the law to patent Mother Nature, they have no use for that side of medicine and instead throughout medical history have chosen to suppress it instead, including doctors who?ve tried to help their patients in the past.  There were countless stories I?ve read that showcased the pressure doctors used to feel from Pharma salesmen to prescribe such and such a drug. 

I?d like to remind you that doctors at the turn of the century were still using herbal medicinals to treat a variety of ailments.  They saw no usage for drugs in those days because what they were using seemed sufficient enough for their patients.
Along came Pastuer and Pharma.  Pasteur with his own wrongful theory of disease ? treating the symptoms rather than the root cause.  His rival B?champs believed in getting to the root cause of disease because without that, the symptoms will always stay with you.  He also believed and proved through his research that the so-called ?germ theory? was not completely responsible for disease mechanisms to flourish, but rather an unbalanced state of the body due to environmental & chemical exposure, including food &  enzymatic imbalances that caused cells to evolve into a weakened state for cancer and other diseases to proliferate.

B?champs & Pasteur were bitter rivals, but, Pasteur?s theory was hailed with great fanfare as pharmaceutical companies saw it as a potential money-maker.  Afterall, there is more money to be made in sickness than in health. 

In later years, after his retirement from research, Pasteur lived in Switzerland not necessarily keeping abreast of medical developments.  He still retained friends in the medical field and upon asking how everything was going, he assumed that with all of the medications that people were actually getting better and their symptoms or abnormalities addressed  accordingly.  He learned quite to the contrary which prompted him to say ?Antoine was right, and I was wrong.  The germ is nothing, the milieu is everything.  My God, what have I unleashed??
Someone should have told him a medical monster in waiting.

And to think that $600M is what the health care field generates is considered piddle in the bucket when one compares to the billions, $Bs of dollars just one pharmaceutical has in it?s arsenal, more than even that of a very small country.
They?ve spread their tentacles far enough.  Not only are they among the world?s most powerful lobbyists, they publish all the medical books, they?ve stacked medical boards with like-minded people to suit their own interests, they?ve been accused (a fact investigated by Dr. Marcia Engel of Harvard) of undermining proper research in universities by corrupting those very places, etc.  The once prestigious New England Journal of Medicine has sadly been corrupted by them as well.  The list is endless.

And you?re telling me that the health food / natural health field is poison and kills people?  That there is no merit in anything that is the opposite of a medication? 

My naturopath / MD references his work and does his due diligence in making sure that what he writes about does indeed have validity of efficacy. 

For most of my life, I never ventured toward natural medicine because I was like the rest of you thinking I don?t need that stuff.  Well, well, well, guess where I?m at today.  There was a time when I too used to think that that was bunk medicine, what?s wrong with the doctors.  Aren?t they supposed to make us well? 
My experience with medicine and doctors has taught me quite the opposite suggestion.  From the time I was three years old, I have gone to an exhaustive number of MDs.  Mainstream medicine never ever offered me any hope because they themselves didn?t know much about the subject matter themselves.

By the time I turned over to natural medicine, it was simply too late to reverse some of my symptoms this condition  has left me with.  (I did not know that my Dr. Rona was covered by OHiP at one time.  This was before he turned private).  I wasn?t about to make the same mistake with my nutrition which propelled me to seek out far better advice than I could ever have hoped for by finally going to him. And I?m glad I did.  It also opened up a world I did not know existed and inspired me (as well as my late brother) to be informed, open-minded, and to learn how to read between the lines, so to speak.
[/quote]That's great that you have a good experience with natural medicine. My former doctor was a naturopath and held and M.D. and held all the requisite designations and in my experience, based on symptoms, I was getting no better treatment than a placebo, and the upshot of my experience is that I'm lucky to be alive despite some pretty bad negligence caused by the naturopathic medicine industry. Even simple logic would conclude: why am I using natural medicine when my doctor would prescribe real medicine when the naturopathic medicine failed every time? It's nonsensical.

You can rant and rave all you want about your own experience but it isn't the only experience out there. And most of us are at least trying to use data beyond our simple experience to back up our claims. Quite frankly this conversation is getting tiresome, especially when someone claims chemotherapy is borderline "quackery." In the famous words of Inigo Montoya, "I don't think this word means what you think it means."

 

[hockeyfan1]

Efficacy and safety limits of supplementation:

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/66/2/427/4655754

Here?s another view:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/patients-doctors-know-vitamins-supplements-2018031613418

Again, food is the best way of getting proper nutrition though there are vast exceptions.  However, the problem with food today is that it comes from many parts of the world (more than ever) and thus by the time it reaches your table, it is already depleted in it?s nutritional content.  That is why Certified Organic is considered superior because they retain more of their nutrient content.


LEF is an investigative scientific organization that researches the efficacy, effectiveness, and safety of not only vitamins, supplements, herbs, etc,, but also modern medications such as Aspirin, Metformin, etc.  They offer a balanced, scientifically-bent results for anyone interested to know.  They sell their own branded supplements through membership, publish a monthly magazine outlining in detail all studies undertaken complete with references and data.
A perfect example of the way medicine should be but isn?t.
They also have a medical advisory board of integrative MDs, wellness physicians, and general MDs.  I have asked them some questions pertaining to my condition (way before I ever went to a naturopath) and they advised me very well regarding steps I needed to take and be aware of regarding my condition.

https://www.lifeextension.com/featured-articles/2013/12/flawed-research-used-to-attack-multivitamin-supplements