Coronavirus

[CarltonTheBear]

And minutes after watching that, with some tears still in my eyes, I see this. I'm getting so goddamn tired of these freaks.

https://twitter.com/CBCHamilton/status/1339708470124228614

 

[Bender]

And minutes after watching that, with some tears still in my eyes, I see this. I'm getting so goddamn tired of these freaks.

https://twitter.com/CBCHamilton/status/1339708470124228614

Get them all working in the ICU is my solution. Turn them around real fast. 

 

[dappleganger]

We?re getting a 6 week full last March style complete and utter lockdown from Boxing Day here in Northern Ireland. Can?t wait.

So here's the thing...

My life has basically not changed for 9 months. I'm working from home and seeing almost nobody. I understand businesses complaining about lockdown but the govt should throw them cash to wait it out.

My employer briefly tried to get us back into the office in August or so. Lasted about two weeks before we started to bring restrictions back in. I felt very uncomfortable with it in all honesty.

I?m fairly content with restrictions. I?d like a bit of freedom to get outside for a bit of exercise or whatever but it?s winter so maybe not as much as in summer anyway so as long as parks and stuff maybe stay open.

I think the half assed lockdowns have been more of a problem as you suggest and certainly the numbers suggest they?re not even close to working.

Better off locking down properly for a decent amount of time and financially supporting business rather than letting restaurants, for example, half open and probably fail due to having to pay staff and other overheads but get no custom in cos people are afraid to go out anyway.

We can't lock down properly because people aren't going to properly lock down. This is my opinion, but it's a fool's errand.

We're just going to have to ride this out. Stay safe.

 

[Kin]

Well, we all knew it was coming:

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/12/20/all-regions-in-ontario-to-enter-lockdown-starting-christmas-eve-source/

We knew we would need it weeks ago but it was delayed so people could do their holiday shopping. I hope it ends up being worth it.

 

[Peter D.]

Well, we all knew it was coming:

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/12/20/all-regions-in-ontario-to-enter-lockdown-starting-christmas-eve-source/

We knew we would need it weeks ago but it was delayed so people could do their holiday shopping. I hope it ends up being worth it.

Lockdowns are ridiculous at this point.

 

[Bender]

Well, we all knew it was coming:

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/12/20/all-regions-in-ontario-to-enter-lockdown-starting-christmas-eve-source/

We knew we would need it weeks ago but it was delayed so people could do their holiday shopping. I hope it ends up being worth it.

Lockdowns are ridiculous at this point.

I think that's open for discussion.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/meganranney/status/1338841290100903937

 

[bustaheims]

Well, we all knew it was coming:

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/12/20/all-regions-in-ontario-to-enter-lockdown-starting-christmas-eve-source/

We knew we would need it weeks ago but it was delayed so people could do their holiday shopping. I hope it ends up being worth it.

Lockdowns are ridiculous at this point.

I think that's open for discussion.

The problem is, with the way this one is being announced, a significant portion of the population is going to ignore it - at least, for the holidays. There's always going to be a portion of the population that flat out refuses to comply or are unable to comply, but, announcing a lock down 3 days before Christmas? Most people who had travel plans aren't going to change them this late in the game. This lockdown either needed to announced weeks ago, or it needed to implemented in a way that acknowledges the reality of the timing - limited restrictions now (no indoor dining, limits on how many people in stores, etc. - enough to try to keep things from getting worse) with a much more strict lockdown than we've seen so far starting January 2nd.

 

[Peter D.]

Well, we all knew it was coming:

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/12/20/all-regions-in-ontario-to-enter-lockdown-starting-christmas-eve-source/

We knew we would need it weeks ago but it was delayed so people could do their holiday shopping. I hope it ends up being worth it.

Lockdowns are ridiculous at this point.

I think that's open for discussion.

The problem is, with the way this one is being announced, a significant portion of the population is going to ignore it - at least, for the holidays. There's always going to be a portion of the population that flat out refuses to comply or are unable to comply, but, announcing a lock down 3 days before Christmas? Most people who had travel plans aren't going to change them this late in the game. This lockdown either needed to announced weeks ago, or it needed to implemented in a way that acknowledges the reality of the timing - limited restrictions now (no indoor dining, limits on how many people in stores, etc. - enough to try to keep things from getting worse) with a much more strict lockdown than we've seen so far starting January 2nd.

Yes, it will be ignored.  But this far in the game, I think they were going to be ignored regardless of when they were announced.

And I don't think the lockdowns were a matter of allowing people to get their Christmas shopping in.  I think had a lot more to do with keeping kids in school.  No way they would have halted the school year without a break like this, because the kids wouldn't go back any time soon.  No chance a 4-week lockdown announced on Nov. 1 would see the kids back in class on Dec. 1.  The Christmas break is perfectly convenient (I'm surprised, yet thankful and appreciate they made it to this point), and now they can tack it on.  I'm fully prepared for the kids to not go back to school until after March Break.

At this point, keep things open with restrictions in place.  If the intention is for COVIDZero, it's never going to happen.  So halting things for four weeks isn't going to change much.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/l_stone/status/1341051875873976320

I think the idea of keeping more things open but with much tighter capacity limits could be something worth exploring, but we need to get the numbers down significantly first and if the science says a hard 4 week lockdown could do that then let's go.

I feel like we've become so blase toward the rising case counts. When we started hitting 1000 new cases a day some people acted like that was a significant failure. Now we're double that and it seems like it's just accepted.

 

[dappleganger]

Having people limited to certain stores due to a lockdown, as opposed to all stores without a lockdown negates the effectiveness of a lockdown. It just shifts where people might acquire the virus.

Limiting social gatherings, curb-side pick up, a renewed emphasis on personal safety measures are all great protocols to limit the spread of Covid.

Amazon fulfillments centres will not be going into lockdown, therein lies a problem: https://nationalpost.com/news/more-than-400-covid-19-cases-at-amazon-warehouses-in-ontario-amid-concern-about-industrial-spread-of-virus

 

[Peter D.]

I think the idea of keeping more things open but with much tighter capacity limits could be something worth exploring, but we need to get the numbers down significantly first and if the science says a hard 4 week lockdown could do that then let's go.

I feel like we've become so blase toward the rising case counts. When we started hitting 1000 new cases a day some people acted like that was a significant failure. Now we're double that and it seems like it's just accepted.

While I agree we've become kind of blase towards the case counts, those numbers are coming from testing that is almost double what it was previously.  Also, the death rates aren't linear as they were initially, and they haven't come close to the peak from early on.  And considering the amount of people are asymptomatic, yes, I believe the mindset has shifted from the "Holy cow...the case counts are out of control."

Mind you, I think the virus is running rampant out there and these cases are undercounted/underreported vastly.  I'm convinced it was ripping wildly through the schools amongst a whack of asymptomatic kids who wouldn't have a clue they had the virus.

 

[bustaheims]

I think the idea of keeping more things open but with much tighter capacity limits could be something worth exploring, but we need to get the numbers down significantly first and if the science says a hard 4 week lockdown could do that then let's go.

I feel like we've become so blase toward the rising case counts. When we started hitting 1000 new cases a day some people acted like that was a significant failure. Now we're double that and it seems like it's just accepted.

While I agree we've become kind of blase towards the case counts, those numbers are coming from testing that is almost double what it was previously.  Also, the death rates aren't linear as they were initially, and they haven't come close to the peak from early on.  And considering the amount of people are asymptomatic, yes, I believe the mindset has shifted from the "Holy cow...the case counts are out of control."

Mind you, I think the virus is running rampant out there and these cases are undercounted/underreported vastly.  I'm convinced it was ripping wildly through the schools amongst a whack of asymptomatic kids who wouldn't have a clue they had the virus.

Yeah. I suspect the true case numbers are at least double what we're seeing, if not higher. On top of the asymptomatic cases, how many people who only had mild symptoms didn't get tested because it passed in the same way bad cold or mild flu might have?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Having people limited to certain stores due to a lockdown, as opposed to all stores without a lockdown negates the effectiveness of a lockdown. It just shifts where people might acquire the virus.

Limiting social gatherings, curb-side pick up, a renewed emphasis on personal safety measures are all great protocols to limit the spread of Covid.

Amazon fulfillments centres will not be going into lockdown, therein lies a problem: https://nationalpost.com/news/more-than-400-covid-19-cases-at-amazon-warehouses-in-ontario-amid-concern-about-industrial-spread-of-virus

Yeah there's definitely lots of places that the current forms of lockdown haven't reached, large warehouses like that are one of them. Let's see if whatever this supposedly larger scale lockdown coming today will do anything there.

 

[Deebo]

Having people limited to certain stores due to a lockdown, as opposed to all stores without a lockdown negates the effectiveness of a lockdown. It just shifts where people might acquire the virus.

Limiting social gatherings, curb-side pick up, a renewed emphasis on personal safety measures are all great protocols to limit the spread of Covid.

Amazon fulfillments centres will not be going into lockdown, therein lies a problem: https://nationalpost.com/news/more-than-400-covid-19-cases-at-amazon-warehouses-in-ontario-amid-concern-about-industrial-spread-of-virus

Yeah there's definitely lots of places that the current forms of lockdown haven't reached, large warehouses like that are one of them. Let's see if whatever this supposedly larger scale lockdown coming today will do anything there.

I thought the expanded restrictions was the current "grey zone" restrictions that are in effect in Toronto, Peel, York, Hamilton and Windsor-Essex are being applied province wide.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I thought the expanded restrictions was the current "grey zone" restrictions that are in effect in Toronto, Peel, York, Hamilton and Windsor-Essex are being applied province wide.

I don't know if that's 100% confirmed yet. There could be further restrictions as well. Guess we'll see soon.

 

[Bullfrog]

At this point, keep things open with restrictions in place.  If the intention is for COVIDZero, it's never going to happen.  So halting things for four weeks isn't going to change much.

Well that's just flat out wrong. Halting things for 4 weeks will absolutely make a difference, even with lower noncompliance. Halting for 6 weeks, is significantly better.

 

[Highlander]

Seems to be a super contagious version of Covid in the UK.  Canada just shut down all air travel from Britain for 72 hours.  Just what we need if someone has landed with this, supposedly 70% more infection rates.  In Britain the infections are out of control.

 

[Peter D.]

Well that's just flat out wrong. Halting things for 4 weeks will absolutely make a difference, even with lower noncompliance. Halting for 6 weeks, is significantly better.

This is my struggle -- okay, cases drop.  Setting aside and forgetting about the impact that more jobs will be lost and businesses will be shut down permanently because of this round of lockdown.  Cases are below 1,000 as the models suggest.  Then what?  Open things up again...send our kids back to school...expand our bubbles... 

Will that not just cause the numbers to creep up again?  Then on to Round 3 of lockdowns? 

 

[Kin]

Well that's just flat out wrong. Halting things for 4 weeks will absolutely make a difference, even with lower noncompliance. Halting for 6 weeks, is significantly better.

This is my struggle -- okay, cases drop.  Setting aside and forgetting about the impact that more jobs will be lost and businesses will be shut down permanently because of this round of lockdown.  Cases are below 1,000 as the models suggest.  Then what?  Open things up again...send our kids back to school...expand our bubbles... 

Will that not just cause the numbers to creep up again?  Then on to Round 3 of lockdowns?

Right but you also are then a month further ahead in the vaccination schedule and you don't run the risk of overwhelming hospitals. That's why people like the OHA are recommending things like this.