Game 15 - Panthers @ Leafs - Tues 11-08 - 7 PM SportsNet

[Kin]

They had the momentum, and very well could have capitalized, but as soon as that 3rd goal goes in, Florida changes their approach to the game. We never had a chance to see if Toronto could have potted a couple over the rest of the 2nd and into the 3rd because of Gustavsson.

With all due respect, I think that's bogus on a number of levels. For starters "very well could have capitalized" doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. At some point you're either able to score a goal or you aren't. The Leafs couldn't do anything in the first two periods offensively. Yes, you're right, if Gus had pitched a shutout or kept it to one goal against the Leafs could have squeezed out a point or two but that in and of itself wouldn't have made the Leafs play better. They were lethargic for half the game, incompetent for the other half.

If, after the goals you're referring to, the Leafs had basically given up and looked like crap then, again, you'd have a point. Sure, they'd be gutless wussies of the highest order for quitting, but they'd at least have convenient excuses. As it were they did continue to skate, they did continue to generate chances and, aside from the one goal, continued to do nothing with them.

 

[harps64]

I do wonder if maybe the Leafs would be better served with a "grizzled vet" on the blueline and maybe an older player in the top 6.  I somewhat intentionally left Steckel off the list of strugglers because I feel like he has added something different than the other guys. He scored 3 goals which is really above his abilities this early in the year, but I think he has provided everything that you need out of him.  He wins his faceoffs, he works hard in the defensive zone, and he directs players on the PK.

I think the blueline is kind of lacking that.  Komisarek is a veteran but he's not all that good.  I think having a more mature guy out there might help direct things with what still amounts to a younger blue-line and I think the top 6 could arguably use that.  The problem obviously is that the only spot that is pseudo-available is the #1 center slot. 

I think that having a couple of mid-30s guys on the team isn't the worst thing in the world.  Being young is great but I think having some veteran voices might not be a bad thing either.

It certainly looks like a veteran goalie may have been a good idea.

Yea, one that can score.

 

[applecheeks]

Very disappointing and we are on a big down slide. We can't seem to get it together. so embarrasing after last week being so high on these guys. booooo

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

They had the momentum, and very well could have capitalized, but as soon as that 3rd goal goes in, Florida changes their approach to the game. We never had a chance to see if Toronto could have potted a couple over the rest of the 2nd and into the 3rd because of Gustavsson.

With all due respect, I think that's bogus on a number of levels. For starters "very well could have capitalized" doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. At some point you're either able to score a goal or you aren't. The Leafs couldn't do anything in the first two periods offensively. Yes, you're right, if Gus had pitched a shutout or kept it to one goal against the Leafs could have squeezed out a point or two but that in and of itself wouldn't have made the Leafs play better. They were lethargic for half the game, incompetent for the other half.

If, after the goals you're referring to, the Leafs had basically given up and looked like crap then, again, you'd have a point. Sure, they'd be gutless wussies of the highest order for quitting, but they'd at least have convenient excuses. As it were they did continue to skate, they did continue to generate chances and, aside from the one goal, continued to do nothing with them.

while i agree we'll never know what would have happened.....i do think we all understand how a team does change their approach to a game based on the score ..it's easier to plug up the neutral zone and play the trap for instance if the goal differential is greater than 1 ..the leafs may not have played well tonight ..but it was their goaltending that ensured their defeat ... 

i happen to like gustavson ...but i'm sure if you asked him ..he wouldn't classify this as one of his better games..

 

[Fanatic]

Wilson:

?Their goalie made a number of big saves and then unfortunately we didn?t get a save," Wilson said. "And that kind of sunk us. We?ve got to shore up our goaltending obviously ...

?If you?re not sure what?s going to happen in the back, you play a little cautious. But for me the positive thing is the number of scoring chances we had compared to [our last few games].?

 

[Kin]

while i agree we'll never know what would have happened.....i do think we all understand how a team does change their approach to a game based on the score ..it's easier to plug up the neutral zone and play the trap for instance if the goal differential is greater than 1 ..the leafs may not have played well tonight ..but it was their goaltending that ensured their defeat ...

Again, that would all add up to a persuasive argument if it weren't for the fact that the Leafs continued generating chances in the third. In fact, the third period may very well have been their best period for generating chances and they still couldn't do it.

If Florida had, as you said, shut down the Leafs' ability to generate chances because of their lead then you could attribute the Leafs' inability to score in the third to those goals but that simply wasn't the case. 

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

while i agree we'll never know what would have happened.....i do think we all understand how a team does change their approach to a game based on the score ..it's easier to plug up the neutral zone and play the trap for instance if the goal differential is greater than 1 ..the leafs may not have played well tonight ..but it was their goaltending that ensured their defeat ...

Again, that would all add up to a persuasive argument if it weren't for the fact that the Leafs continued generating chances in the third. In fact, the third period may very well have been their best period for generating chances and they still couldn't do it.

If Florida had, as you said, shut down the Leafs' ability to generate chances because of their lead then you could attribute the Leafs' inability to score in the third to those goals but that simply wasn't the case.

i don't think we're that far apart ... i didn't think the leafs had one of their better games over all ..and neither do you ...i just think that where i felt that most of the team was hovering around slightly below average ..our goaltending was in the toilet..

sometimes teams win games they're supposed to lose ..sometimes the other way around ....this is a game where it would have been damn near impossible given what went on between the pipes... ..i hope who ever is in net next game can offer up a better performance ..because let's put it another way  if the leaf forwards come out with a great game next time it's still not going to matter much if the goalies play like that ...and yes...i'm aware that sometimes you're able to win a game 9-8 ...but i guess i don't think the chances of it are very high

 

[Kin]

i don't think we're that far apart ... i didn't think the leafs had one of their better games over all ..and neither do you ...i just think that where i felt that most of the team was hovering around slightly below average ..our goaltending was in the toilet..

Yeah, although for the record I don't think the goaltending was good tonight. I just think the entire team was bad tonight and no aspect of the team's performance was good enough to win.

because let's put it another way  if the leaf forwards come out with a great game next time it's still not going to matter much if the goalies play like that ...and yes...i'm aware that sometimes you're able to win a game 9-8 ...but i guess i don't think the chances of it are very high

But there's an obvious flipside. If the forwards come out and are unable to put the puck in the net and the defensemen come out and give up a ton of great chances then it's not going to matter much who's in net either. Sure, occasionally, a team can squeak out a win at 1-0 or 2-1 where the goalie stops 30+ shots but that's pretty rare too.

 

[ZBBM]

I think people need to realign their expectations back to when we were 0-0.  This is a team:

1.  that is very young with 2 non-established goaltenders
2.  has shown flashes of good offensive play that have allowed them to (so far) outscore their defensive mistakes (Ferraro's phrase the other night, which I would put up as the best summary of the season to date)
3.  has displayed a defense that is, once again, disorganized in its own zone
4.  has, once again, woeful special teams

In other words, a team that will have to fight just to make the playoffs.  The 9-5-1 start is encouraging.  But the fundamentals haven't changed.  This season is about continuing to develop young players, and especially it's about determining whether Reimer and Gustavsson are the answer(s) going forward.

I could add a word about whether we have the right coach for this kind of team but that's actually not the most important factor here.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't know why, but this bugged me a lot more than it should have:

mirtle: There was an interesting contrast between the goalies tonight, as Gustavsson said he was unlucky while Scrivens said he didn't play well.

Gustavsson needs to own up to his play tonight. There was some bad luck there, sure, but, he did not play well either - and, I'd say it was more poor play than poor luck.

 

[Redleaf]

I don't know why, but this bugged me a lot more than it should have:

mirtle: There was an interesting contrast between the goalies tonight, as Gustavsson said he was unlucky while Scrivens said he didn't play well.

Gustavsson needs to own up to his play tonight. There was some bad luck there, sure, but, he did not play well either - and, I'd say it was more poor play than poor luck.

Interesting indeed.

 

[Kin]

I don't know why, but this bugged me a lot more than it should have:

mirtle: There was an interesting contrast between the goalies tonight, as Gustavsson said he was unlucky while Scrivens said he didn't play well.

Gustavsson needs to own up to his play tonight. There was some bad luck there, sure, but, he did not play well either - and, I'd say it was more poor play than poor luck.

Honestly, I think that's probably more of a language thing than anything. I saw a post-game interview with him, or snippets of one anyway, and I heard him say "we" were unlucky as opposed to him.

edit: And to that, Gus' tone in that interview was pretty deflated. It certainly wasn't a shrug and "Eh, you know, breaks didn't go my way".

 

[Deebo]

Yeah, although for the record I don't think the goaltending was good tonight. I just think the entire team was bad tonight and no aspect of the team's performance was good enough to win.

I disagree, I think Toronto were strong enough defensivley to win, they played disciplined and were able to kill off the 2 penalties they did get.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Don't know if this was the quote:

mirtle James Mirtle
Jonas Gustavsson: "It was just one of those nights where you don't get the bounces. You know everything hits the post, deflects."

 

[Kin]

I disagree, I think Toronto were strong enough defensivley to win, they played disciplined and were able to kill off the 2 penalties they did get.

Watch that first period again. They easily could have been down two or three goals after that. 

 

[Kin]

Don't know if this was the quote:

mirtle James Mirtle
Jonas Gustavsson: "It was just one of those nights where you don't get the bounces. You know everything hits the post, deflects."

Which, I think, makes it pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole as opposed to his performance.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Mirtle likes to rip on Gustavsson so wouldn't be surprised if he took it out of context.

 

[TheMightyOdin]

I'm glad I turned off that joke and went to the gym.  Way better use of my time.

 

[Deebo]

I disagree, I think Toronto were strong enough defensivley to win, they played disciplined and were able to kill off the 2 penalties they did get.

Watch that first period again. They easily could have been down two or three goals after that. 

But like you said, at some point you can score or you can't, and apart from the one, they didn't capitalize on their chances.

And then into the 2nd and 3rd periods they didn't really get many chances at all, but the goalies let in goals anyways.

The panthers 2nd and 3rd looked like the Leafs 1st, except they got gifted a bunch of goals off nothing chances.

 

[Rebel_1812]

Don't know if this was the quote:

mirtle James Mirtle
Jonas Gustavsson: "It was just one of those nights where you don't get the bounces. You know everything hits the post, deflects."

Which, I think, makes it pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole as opposed to his performance.

by the way Nik, the monster had another bad game statistically.  His save percentage was 0.857 and his GA was 3.  As I said before, you will not win consistently with a goalie whose gaa is 3 or over and whose save percentage was below 0.900.