Game 15 - Panthers @ Leafs - Tues 11-08 - 7 PM SportsNet

[leafplasma]

This is where a good coach or a solid veteran leader can calm the team.  Stifle a slide with a rallying motivational speech.  Unfortunately we have none of the above.

 

[L K]

But Scrivens is 'quiet' in net apparently.

Gustavsson would have given up three goals on that play. 

Scrivens = .867 SV%
Gustavsson = .878 SV%

You aren't going to win games with that.

It's hard to believe both our goaltenders would be giving Vesa Toskala a run for his money.

And yet you have people clamouring for there to be no clear #2.  Scrivens has been worse than Gustavsson.  Gus has been not-good but is doing nothing to earn starts after that first game.  Any time a forward has a good first game, you caution about adrenaline but he looks shell-shocked.  With Gustavsson it seems more like he makes mental miscues.  If the Leafs value Scrivens long-term, you can't run out a shell-shocked goaltender.

 

[Bender]

Do the Leafs have a 3rd/4th line?

Brown - 1 goal in 15 games
Lombardi - 2 goals in 15 games
Frattin - 1 assist in 13 games
Dupuis - 0 points in 13 games
Rosehill - 0 points in 5 games
Armstrong - 0 points in 5 games
Bozak - 0 goals in 13 games

I know you shouldn't be looking for your bottom 6 to be providing your offense but that's just not enough from them.

It's shocking that nobody has stepped up. I think Lombardi still looks like he's lost out there post concussion. We need Army and Reimer back horrendously.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

This is where a good coach or a solid veteran leader can calm the team.  Stifle a slide with a rallying motivational speech.  Unfortunately we have none of the above.

Like the poor coach and lack of veteran leadership caused Detroit to slide through a 6-game losing streak this season.  If only they had some veterans to stifle the slide!

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

the leafs weren't great ...but goaltending has made them look a lot worse ...i'm not sure any of the goals tonight should have happened ...doesn't mean scrivens/gustavson didn't make some saves along the way..but the questionable goals are at 100%

You can't put the 1st period on Gus. The Leafs generated nothing and stood around and watched. They picked it up a little afterwards but it's still not on Gus/Scrivens to score goals and the Leafs looked utterly incapable of doing that in the last two games.

so are you saying that if the leafs were scoring goals then gustavson would have remembered how to stop the puck? 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Do the Leafs have a 3rd/4th line?

Brown - 1 goal in 15 games
Lombardi - 2 goals in 15 games
Frattin - 1 assist in 13 games
Dupuis - 0 points in 13 games
Rosehill - 0 points in 5 games
Armstrong - 0 points in 5 games
Bozak - 0 goals in 13 games

I know you shouldn't be looking for your bottom 6 to be providing your offense but that's just not enough from them.

It's shocking that nobody has stepped up. I think Lombardi still looks like he's lost out there post concussion. We need Army and Reimer back horrendously.

Steckel has 3 goals, so that increases the total to 7 goals overall out of the bottom 6 who have been playing regularly (Brown, Lombardi, Frattin, Dupuis, Steckel, Bozak).

 

[Kin]

so are you saying that if the leafs were scoring goals then gustavson would have remembered how to stop the puck?

No, I'm saying that everyone stunk tonight. That the entire team played poorly. Gus, Scrivens, Kessel, Phaneuf, Keon, Conacher, the whole gang.

 

[Deebo]

the leafs weren't great ...but goaltending has made them look a lot worse ...i'm not sure any of the goals tonight should have happened ...doesn't mean scrivens/gustavson didn't make some saves along the way..but the questionable goals are at 100%

You can't put the 1st period on Gus. The Leafs generated nothing and stood around and watched. They picked it up a little afterwards but it's still not on Gus/Scrivens to score goals and the Leafs looked utterly incapable of doing that in the last two games.

They had a strong period in the 2nd, no goals but they carried the play and still had a chance to win the game then the 2 goals happen and the game was effectivley over.

 

[leafplasma]

This is where a good coach or a solid veteran leader can calm the team.  Stifle a slide with a rallying motivational speech.  Unfortunately we have none of the above.

Like the poor coach and lack of veteran leadership caused Detroit to slide through a 6-game losing streak this season.  If only they had some veterans to stifle the slide!

Detroit will be all right, a young team like Toronto can see a slide like this snowball into another lost season.

 

[Kin]

They had a strong period in the 2nd, no goals but they carried the play and still had a chance to win the game then the 2 goals happen and the game was effectivley over.

That's all well and good but the offense can't spot the other team 45 minutes where they don't score. Carrying the play means very little if you can't capitalize at all on your opportunities.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

This is where a good coach or a solid veteran leader can calm the team.  Stifle a slide with a rallying motivational speech.  Unfortunately we have none of the above.

Like the poor coach and lack of veteran leadership caused Detroit to slide through a 6-game losing streak this season.  If only they had some veterans to stifle the slide!

Detroit will be all right, a young team like Toronto can see a slide like this snowball into another lost season.

My point was moreso that you can't pin the slide on vagaries of a 'good coach' or team leadership, because even teams with both of those things go through rough patches of varying length.

 

[harps64]

We are a bloody horrible team. We can't even rally and get it together after a bad loss. Instead we crap the bed again. What the hell.

Name a team that is going to win with goaltending like we've seen tonight.  Maybe the 80's Oilers.

I think you are missing the point. We get hammered on Saturday at home and we come out against Flordia, at home again, and get outshot 14-6 in the first period, yea that sounds like a goaltending problem to me.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

We are a bloody horrible team. We can't even rally and get it together after a bad loss. Instead we crap the bed again. What the hell.

Name a team that is going to win with goaltending like we've seen tonight.  Maybe the 80's Oilers.

I think you are missing the point. We get hammered on Saturday at home and we come out against Flordia, at home again, and get outshot 14-6 in the first period, yea that sounds like a goaltending problem to me.

I didn't think many of those 14 shots were particularly good chances to score, in fact I was surprised they even had that many.

Not missing the point at all - he said we are a 'bloody horrible team', and I don't think this game is emblematic of that.  I think it is a game that, if we had better goaltending, could very well have ended up differently.

 

[harps64]

This is where a good coach or a solid veteran leader can calm the team.  Stifle a slide with a rallying motivational speech.  Unfortunately we have none of the above.

Like the poor coach and lack of veteran leadership caused Detroit to slide through a 6-game losing streak this season.  If only they had some veterans to stifle the slide!

Are you seriously comparing the Wings to the Leafs?

 

[leafplasma]

This is where a good coach or a solid veteran leader can calm the team.  Stifle a slide with a rallying motivational speech.  Unfortunately we have none of the above.

Like the poor coach and lack of veteran leadership caused Detroit to slide through a 6-game losing streak this season.  If only they had some veterans to stifle the slide!

Detroit will be all right, a young team like Toronto can see a slide like this snowball into another lost season.

My point was moreso that you can't pin the slide on vagaries of a 'good coach' or team leadership, because even teams with both of those things go through rough patches of varying length.

I understand what your saying.  I guess what I am saying, an aging vet like Roberts or Niewy as Leafs in the twilight of their careers would do so much to help stabilize these kids.  That and I am tired of Ron Wilson. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

This is where a good coach or a solid veteran leader can calm the team.  Stifle a slide with a rallying motivational speech.  Unfortunately we have none of the above.

Like the poor coach and lack of veteran leadership caused Detroit to slide through a 6-game losing streak this season.  If only they had some veterans to stifle the slide!

Are you seriously comparing the Wings to the Leafs?

Yep, that's exactly what I'm doing!  I'm saying they are very similar in terms of recent success, skill level of their players, and overall awesome-ness!

 

[stingray]

Last season, I was involved in a discussion about Gus with Hockey Gal, and Mad Ferret i believe. I was saying gus lacked certain traits to be a good goalie in this league ( poor positioning, rebound control, mental foritude, and unable to stop shots from the point). They claimed it was because he had to get used to the new rink size, and new angles, as well as the amount of time missed to his treatments. I also asked them if they would re-sign the monster at 1.7 mil a year the following season. they both agreed they would without even thinking about it.
My question to both of them is, have you changed your opinion about Gus, or do you fell he is still salvageable and worthy to be at least a back up goalie for the leafs?

 

[L K]

This is where a good coach or a solid veteran leader can calm the team.  Stifle a slide with a rallying motivational speech.  Unfortunately we have none of the above.

Like the poor coach and lack of veteran leadership caused Detroit to slide through a 6-game losing streak this season.  If only they had some veterans to stifle the slide!

Detroit will be all right, a young team like Toronto can see a slide like this snowball into another lost season.

My point was moreso that you can't pin the slide on vagaries of a 'good coach' or team leadership, because even teams with both of those things go through rough patches of varying length.

I do wonder if maybe the Leafs would be better served with a "grizzled vet" on the blueline and maybe an older player in the top 6.  I somewhat intentionally left Steckel off the list of strugglers because I feel like he has added something different than the other guys. He scored 3 goals which is really above his abilities this early in the year, but I think he has provided everything that you need out of him.  He wins his faceoffs, he works hard in the defensive zone, and he directs players on the PK.

I think the blueline is kind of lacking that.  Komisarek is a veteran but he's not all that good.  I think having a more mature guy out there might help direct things with what still amounts to a younger blue-line and I think the top 6 could arguably use that.  The problem obviously is that the only spot that is pseudo-available is the #1 center slot. 

I think that having a couple of mid-30s guys on the team isn't the worst thing in the world.  Being young is great but I think having some veteran voices might not be a bad thing either.

 

[Deebo]

They had a strong period in the 2nd, no goals but they carried the play and still had a chance to win the game then the 2 goals happen and the game was effectivley over.

That's all well and good but the offense can't spot the other team 45 minutes where they don't score. Carrying the play means very little if you can't capitalize at all on your opportunities.

They had the momentum, and very well could have capitalized, but as soon as that 3rd goal goes in, Florida changes their approach to the game. We never had a chance to see if Toronto could have potted a couple over the rest of the 2nd and into the 3rd because of Gustavsson.

The Leafs may not have won if those 2 goals didn't go in, but they had pretty much no chance because they did go in, barring another colapse by the Panthers.

I'd say the 2 boston games are one where "everyone stunk", but tonight was different.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I do wonder if maybe the Leafs would be better served with a "grizzled vet" on the blueline and maybe an older player in the top 6.  I somewhat intentionally left Steckel off the list of strugglers because I feel like he has added something different than the other guys. He scored 3 goals which is really above his abilities this early in the year, but I think he has provided everything that you need out of him.  He wins his faceoffs, he works hard in the defensive zone, and he directs players on the PK.

I think the blueline is kind of lacking that.  Komisarek is a veteran but he's not all that good.  I think having a more mature guy out there might help direct things with what still amounts to a younger blue-line and I think the top 6 could arguably use that.  The problem obviously is that the only spot that is pseudo-available is the #1 center slot. 

I think that having a couple of mid-30s guys on the team isn't the worst thing in the world.  Being young is great but I think having some veteran voices might not be a bad thing either.

It certainly looks like a veteran goalie may have been a good idea.