bustaheims
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You're missing Brown, who will definitely be in over Rosehill. I imagine Rosehill will be gone once MacArthur's suspension is done.
General Leafs Talk
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GhostofPotvin29
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Does anyone know off-hand if other teams' 4th lines typically play more than 7 minutes or so a night? I'd be curious to know, but my internet is too slow to look it up.
bustaheims
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Potvin29 said:
4th lines aroudn the league seem to play anywhere from 5 to 12 minutes a night, depending on the team/situation/etc.
L K
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Potvin29 said:
It's not perfect because it includes guys who played less than a full season but 450 players averaged 10 minutes of ice-time a game last year (for forwards only).
565 players averaged more ice-time than Rosehill/game and 571 averaged more ice-time than Orr. Orr played the 16th least ice-time per game of all forwards in the NHL and Rosehill was the 22nd least utilized player. I do understand having one of them, but I don't understand both of them being on the roster when they don't really provide much of anything to the roster.
Boyce and Zigomanis aren't anything to worry about not having on the roster, but I think Boyce's ability to actually play a bit of defense and chip in some gritty offense make him a much better 4th liner/13th forward, and Zigomanis' ability to win faceoffs is infinitely more valuable than Orr's staged fights.
The team still has a long way to go toward being a complete roster, so I really think you need to utilize your roster spots to their best effectiveness at this point, and that means having offensive specialists for when the team is struggling to score, and a defensive specialist for games where your team is having a hard time keeping pucks out of the net.
Guilt Trip
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Check out any good team....the 4th line plays 5-7 minutes max. I think you're way off with the tiring comment. I want the top 2 lines playing roughly 20 mins , and the 3rd playing up to 15. That leaves 5 for for 4th. Same with the D. Top pair plays 25, 2nd 20, 3rd around 15.L K said:
I think Lashoff might get picked up by Edmonton.
GhostofPotvin29
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L K said:
Agreed, I could do without having both. Burke clearly likes having them around, though.
Guilt Trip
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Rosehill is still here because he has to clear waivers, and we don't know if Orr can drop them yet. If Orr can't resume his role, Rosehill will fill in nicely. I've got no problem with RW's decision....it's the 4th line.Potvin29 said:
L K
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Guilt Trip said:
The Leafs aren't a good team. On any given night, the Kessel line is going to look bad, the Grabovski line isn't going to be able to carry 82 games, and the Leafs are going to be carrying guys who you can't trust on the ice. Detroit doesn't ice a terrible 4th line, they don't play it as much because their top 9 is just much better.
Stanley Cup Winning Boston Bruins - no forward under 10 min/game
Chicago - No player with >5 games played under 10 min/game
Detroit - No player under 8 min AND no player >10 games under 10 min
Guilt Trip
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You're absolutely right....I stand corrected....Only regular Leafs under 10 minutes a game were Rosehill and Orr. Maybe it's an RW thing where his enforcers only play around 5 minutes. Brown plays 10 minutes a night. I doubt that both will be in the lineup together so while Brown and Orr/ Rosehill did play on the same line last year, Brown still averaged about 5 minutes a game more.L K said:
I still don't think our 4th line is terrible. Brown and whoever the center is, are more then capable defensively. I myself would have kept Ziggy here but let's not forget....who starts the year here doesn't necessarily finish the year here.
Versteeg, Caputi, Ziggy, Mitchell, Sjostrom, Beau, Lebda...all started with the Leafs last year.....
bustaheims
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drummond said:
Because he's mostly useless outside the face-off circle.
Guilt Trip
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No. We have 4 centers already. Ziggy was to be a 4th line guy and was beaten out by Dupuis....like I said earlier, I think Rosehill will be here until Orr proves he can do the job, and they didn't want to risk losing him just in case Orr couldn't.drummond said:
There were some pretty awful rumours about Orr's concussion last winder/spring. I wonder if he's one 'good' (if you'll excuse the terminology because it wouldn't be 'good') punch away from retirement. And therefore, Rosehill is being retained to provide insurance - something like that. Or maybe Orr is a little banged up ...
Keeping both enforcers longer term doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Keeping both enforcers longer term doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
bustaheims
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drummond said:
No, but Zigomanis wasn't competing for a spot against Rosehill and Orr, nor can he fill the role that they're meant to.
Bender said:
I don't think he's the 7th. I think Komi starts there and then it'll go game by game, unless there's a trade and/or Gardiner falters. One bad game and you could sit - I like it, it keeps everyone on their toes.
EDIT: I see RW says it's so - a surprise to me, but I think it still stands to reason that they all will be on a short leash - including Komi
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