Goaltending conundrum v3.0-Reimer or Bernier?

[GhostofPotvin29]

Arguing over whether Reimer or Scrivens has been better ignores the fact that neither has shown he's the long-term answer to our goalie problems.

I think Reimer has.

As a backup, perhaps.

Based on what?

 

[ZBBM]

Arguing over whether Reimer or Scrivens has been better ignores the fact that neither has shown he's the long-term answer to our goalie problems.

I think Reimer has.

As a backup, perhaps.

Based on what?

No evidence that he can bail the team out on a fairly consistent basis.  That's my criterion for a #1: a guy who wins games for you when the team's play doesn't deserve it.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Arguing over whether Reimer or Scrivens has been better ignores the fact that neither has shown he's the long-term answer to our goalie problems.

I think Reimer has.

As a backup, perhaps.

Based on what?

No evidence that he can bail the team out on a fairly consistent basis.  That's my criterion for a #1: a guy who wins games for you when the team's play doesn't deserve it.

Well he's got a .916 SV% on the season, I think he's been great for the Leafs.  Just because he's had a few bad games doesn't mean he's inconsistent, most goalies do that (if not all).  He's ahead of guys like Price, Fleury, Rinne, Miller, Ward thus far, even with his recent tough outings.

I see no reason to think he's not a #1 goalie.  He's been playing like one so far this season.

 

[bustaheims]

All I am asking for is a few games here, wow it is just crazy how you people and this city will defend Reimer to no end.

In order to get a few games, he has to be good enough in that first game, and, in most of his recent opportunities, he wasn't.

 

[ZBBM]

Arguing over whether Reimer or Scrivens has been better ignores the fact that neither has shown he's the long-term answer to our goalie problems.

I think Reimer has.

As a backup, perhaps.

Based on what?

No evidence that he can bail the team out on a fairly consistent basis.  That's my criterion for a #1: a guy who wins games for you when the team's play doesn't deserve it.

Well he's got a .916 SV% on the season, I think he's been great for the Leafs.  Just because he's had a few bad games doesn't mean he's inconsistent, most goalies do that (if not all).  He's ahead of guys like Price, Fleury, Rinne, Miller, Ward thus far, even with his recent tough outings.

I see no reason to think he's not a #1 goalie.  He's been playing like one so far this season.

You'd be satisfied to see him as the Leafs starter for, say, the next 7, 8, 9, 10 years or whatever?  That's the kind of guy I'm looking for.

 

[bustaheims]

You'd be satisfied to see him as the Leafs starter for, say, the next 7, 8, 9, 10 years or whatever?  That's the kind of guy I'm looking for.

That's looking for more than just a number 1 goalie, though. There are only a handful of guys in the league I'd be comfortable looking at for that long.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Arguing over whether Reimer or Scrivens has been better ignores the fact that neither has shown he's the long-term answer to our goalie problems.

I think Reimer has.

As a backup, perhaps.

Based on what?

No evidence that he can bail the team out on a fairly consistent basis.  That's my criterion for a #1: a guy who wins games for you when the team's play doesn't deserve it.

Well he's got a .916 SV% on the season, I think he's been great for the Leafs.  Just because he's had a few bad games doesn't mean he's inconsistent, most goalies do that (if not all).  He's ahead of guys like Price, Fleury, Rinne, Miller, Ward thus far, even with his recent tough outings.

I see no reason to think he's not a #1 goalie.  He's been playing like one so far this season.

You'd be satisfied to see him as the Leafs starter for, say, the next 7, 8, 9, 10 years or whatever?  That's the kind of guy I'm looking for.

I think he's shown enough so far.  I posted it elsewhere, but he's got more minutes at almost the exact same sv% as Cory Schneider, and coming into this season almost everyone viewed him as a goalie like the kind you're talking about.

 

[ZBBM]

You'd be satisfied to see him as the Leafs starter for, say, the next 7, 8, 9, 10 years or whatever?  That's the kind of guy I'm looking for.

That's looking for more than just a number 1 goalie, though. There are only a handful of guys in the league I'd be comfortable looking at for that long.

Not me.  Any of the guys Potvin named would probably suffice for me (well, except Fleury).  I'm not asking for the next Lundqvist here.  But IMO Reimer hasn't exhibited the kind of "lift the team" talent that is a minimum requirement for a #1.

 

[ZBBM]

Arguing over whether Reimer or Scrivens has been better ignores the fact that neither has shown he's the long-term answer to our goalie problems.

I think Reimer has.

As a backup, perhaps.

Based on what?

No evidence that he can bail the team out on a fairly consistent basis.  That's my criterion for a #1: a guy who wins games for you when the team's play doesn't deserve it.

Well he's got a .916 SV% on the season, I think he's been great for the Leafs.  Just because he's had a few bad games doesn't mean he's inconsistent, most goalies do that (if not all).  He's ahead of guys like Price, Fleury, Rinne, Miller, Ward thus far, even with his recent tough outings.

I see no reason to think he's not a #1 goalie.  He's been playing like one so far this season.

You'd be satisfied to see him as the Leafs starter for, say, the next 7, 8, 9, 10 years or whatever?  That's the kind of guy I'm looking for.

I think he's shown enough so far.  I posted it elsewhere, but he's got more minutes at almost the exact same sv% as Cory Schneider, and coming into this season almost everyone viewed him as a goalie like the kind you're talking about.

They did?  Not the evals I read -- they were all "jury's still out."

 

[bustaheims]

Not me.  Any of the guys Potvin named would probably suffice for me (well, except Fleury).  I'm not asking for the next Lundqvist here.  But IMO Reimer hasn't exhibited the kind of "lift the team" talent that is a minimum requirement for a #1.

Yeah, but he listed just about all of them. There aren't really any others in the league that I'd add to that list, other than maybe Rask - and I'd still need him to show he can put up these kind of numbers in back to back seasons as a starter - and maybe Quick, depending on how he finishes this season. And, I wouldn't trust Miller for that long, either. You're talking elite starter, not just #1 goalie.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Arguing over whether Reimer or Scrivens has been better ignores the fact that neither has shown he's the long-term answer to our goalie problems.

I think Reimer has.

As a backup, perhaps.

Based on what?

No evidence that he can bail the team out on a fairly consistent basis.  That's my criterion for a #1: a guy who wins games for you when the team's play doesn't deserve it.

Well he's got a .916 SV% on the season, I think he's been great for the Leafs.  Just because he's had a few bad games doesn't mean he's inconsistent, most goalies do that (if not all).  He's ahead of guys like Price, Fleury, Rinne, Miller, Ward thus far, even with his recent tough outings.

I see no reason to think he's not a #1 goalie.  He's been playing like one so far this season.

You'd be satisfied to see him as the Leafs starter for, say, the next 7, 8, 9, 10 years or whatever?  That's the kind of guy I'm looking for.

I think he's shown enough so far.  I posted it elsewhere, but he's got more minutes at almost the exact same sv% as Cory Schneider, and coming into this season almost everyone viewed him as a goalie like the kind you're talking about.

They did?  Not the evals I read -- they were all "jury's still out."

Kinda why they've been trying to trade one of the top goalies of the past decade.

 

[ZBBM]

Arguing over whether Reimer or Scrivens has been better ignores the fact that neither has shown he's the long-term answer to our goalie problems.

I think Reimer has.

As a backup, perhaps.

Based on what?

No evidence that he can bail the team out on a fairly consistent basis.  That's my criterion for a #1: a guy who wins games for you when the team's play doesn't deserve it.

Well he's got a .916 SV% on the season, I think he's been great for the Leafs.  Just because he's had a few bad games doesn't mean he's inconsistent, most goalies do that (if not all).  He's ahead of guys like Price, Fleury, Rinne, Miller, Ward thus far, even with his recent tough outings.

I see no reason to think he's not a #1 goalie.  He's been playing like one so far this season.

You'd be satisfied to see him as the Leafs starter for, say, the next 7, 8, 9, 10 years or whatever?  That's the kind of guy I'm looking for.

I think he's shown enough so far.  I posted it elsewhere, but he's got more minutes at almost the exact same sv% as Cory Schneider, and coming into this season almost everyone viewed him as a goalie like the kind you're talking about.

They did?  Not the evals I read -- they were all "jury's still out."

Kinda why they've been trying to trade one of the top goalies of the past decade.

Sorry, I misunderstood you -- thought the "him" referred to Reimer, not Schneider (since you were using "he" to refer to Reimer).

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Sorry if I worded that terribly!

 

[ZBBM]

Not me.  Any of the guys Potvin named would probably suffice for me (well, except Fleury).  I'm not asking for the next Lundqvist here.  But IMO Reimer hasn't exhibited the kind of "lift the team" talent that is a minimum requirement for a #1.

Yeah, but he listed just about all of them. There aren't really any others in the league that I'd add to that list, other than maybe Rask - and I'd still need him to show he can put up these kind of numbers in back to back seasons as a starter - and maybe Quick, depending on how he finishes this season. And, I wouldn't trust Miller for that long, either. You're talking elite starter, not just #1 goalie.

I'm going to hit the sack now, but could we not add Brodeur, Luongo as well?  Anyway, my central point is that Reimer has not shown himself to be good enough to say, "Hey, we've found our goalie."  I well remember the last time that phrase was used by a Leafs general manager, and I'm sure you do too.... 

 

[ZBBM]

Sorry if I worded that terribly!

Nah, just a pronoun continuation issue.  Cheers. 

To close out, I like Reimer, I just wish he was good enough to steal games for us.  Haven't seen it yet.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm going to hit the sack now, but could we not add Brodeur, Luongo as well?  Anyway, my central point is that Reimer has not shown himself to be good enough to say, "Hey, we've found our goalie."  I well remember the last time that phrase was used by a Leafs general manager, and I'm sure you do too.... 

Brodeur 10-15 years ago, sure, and Luongo 5 or so years ago, yeah, but, that's still talking elite starter, not just #1 goalie.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I'd rather Reimer play as he is and the team not have to be bailed out some nights. The team defensive game needs to put in the effort to back their goalie up. I don't like the strategy of having to have a Curtis Joseph performance in his first stint as a Leaf, to make our team a contender.

 

[bustaheims]

I'd rather Reimer play as he is and the team not have to be bailed out some nights. The team defensive game needs to put in the effort to back their goalie up. I don't like the strategy of having to have a Curtis Joseph performance in his first stint as a Leaf, to make our team a contender.

That's just it - if the Leafs are going to be a true Cup contender, they need to be a team that wins consistently without having elite goaltending and that doesn't have to rely on their goalie to steal games for them.

 

[ZBBM]

I never said that I wanted a team that relies on a goalie to steal games. I just said I wanted one who can and does steal games. Add a goalie like that to a team that is responsible defensively and you've got a perennial contender.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I never said that I wanted a team that relies on a goalie to steal games. I just said I wanted one who can and does steal games. Add a goalie like that to a team that is responsible defensively and you've got a perennial contender.

My response was less about what specifically you said, only a response to the general theme of the conversation. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.

In saying that, I think Reimer is a guy that can, has and will do exactly what you want. Maybe he isn't Lundqvist at the moment, but his fundamentals are solid and I think there is still a lot of upside with him.

These games that the Leafs are blowing are indicative of them not skating for 60 minutes, they seem to me to burn out half way through a fair bit. This creates all sorts of turnovers and defensive lapses IMO.