Goaltending conundrum

[gunnar36]

So, what do they do with Gustavsson?  Make a bid to sign him again?  If so, then what with Reimer?  Because there's no way BB can go into next season with those 2 as the goalies.

I would re-sign Gustavsson and play him as our #1.  We know what kind of goalie he can be when the coach shows confidence in him. 

As for Reimer, I would try to trade him in the off-season...and sign a veteran. I wouldn't really be concerned about the return on trade because I think he is destined for a career in the minors.  Way too many flaws in his game and not a lot of natural athleticism.

 

[Bender]

The idea that goaltending is the biggest hole on the team is a gigantic red herring I think.  It's the team's defense that has been atrocious this year--these guys have been more prone to poor coverage, bad positioning, terrible decisionmaking, poor passing, etc., than any team I can remember, and the goaltenders' stats/confidence has really suffered as a result.  Early on their feisty offense helped disguise their defensive ineptitude but these things even out over time.

[Edit: Witness the number of shutouts this year.  When the team's defenders actually show up for a game, or for a stretch of games as occurred with Gus in January, our goalies are fine and dandy.]

Truth is, Burke amassed an overpaid, soft, sloppy bunch of defenders and forwards, and he compounded his mistake by sticking with a coach long after he had quite clearly lost the dressing room.  This team has zero identity, and Burke deserves the lion's share of the blame for that.

It's funny how you're closing your eyes to specific games. I couldn't tell you how many times Gus and Reimer were in position to make a save but failed to do so. Not too long ago in OT instead of letting the puck go by, he moved into the shot and it went in. How do you blame that on defense?

On the flipside the Philly game: Yeah, the defense was better, but watching the game, Gus stood on his head and did a great job of keeping them in the game. Would I attribute his SO to better defense? To some extent, I suppose, but Gustavsson earned his shutout, the defense didn't.

And further to that, how many times do we have to use a Leafs 98 vs. 99 team as an example? To think that goaltending isn't at least a key issue is insane, as it is to think that it's the only issue.

 

[riff raff]

I've had a problem trying to figure out what the Leafs are doing with Gus right now. I guess he has given them the best chance to win and they were (are?) still trying to make the playoffs.

But it seems unlikely that they will keep him after this season, so, unless there is an unknown injury issue with Reimer (call his mother), they really should be giving him the net to see what they have to work with going forward.

Gus has been frustrating on so many levels. Watching him over the last week or so, you see that he is a very talented goalie. He makes a lot of tough, often acrobatic, saves. And then he lets in a stinker...often at the worst possible time. It appears to be more of a mental issue than a talent issue.

I could see another team taking a chance on him and maybe with a different goalie coach he deals with those mental blips and we will be frustrated further watching him shine somewhere else.

 

[jonlleafs]

The idea that goaltending is the biggest hole on the team is a gigantic red herring I think.  It's the team's defense that has been atrocious this year--these guys have been more prone to poor coverage, bad positioning, terrible decisionmaking, poor passing, etc., than any team I can remember, and the goaltenders' stats/confidence has really suffered as a result.  Early on their feisty offense helped disguise their defensive ineptitude but these things even out over time.

[Edit: Witness the number of shutouts this year.  When the team's defenders actually show up for a game, or for a stretch of games as occurred with Gus in January, our goalies are fine and dandy.]

Truth is, Burke amassed an overpaid, soft, sloppy bunch of defenders and forwards, and he compounded his mistake by sticking with a coach long after he had quite clearly lost the dressing room.  This team has zero identity, and Burke deserves the lion's share of the blame for that.

Can you please explain to me then the horrible goal in the NJ game in OT where Gus gives up a bad goal when it was going wide?  Or how about all the soft goals he gives up (which is at least once a game) throughout this whole season?  I think you're letting the goalies off too easy.  Sure the defense has had its struggles, but the defense wouldn't be struggling if the goalies merely made the routine save.  I look at other teams and their goalies don't give up soft goals through the legs from past the slot on a wrist shot.  They don't overplay the shots putting themselves out of position.  With Gus' size, he shouldn't have to move much around the net, yet he does and opens up one side of the net.  I'm sorry, but I don't buy the defensive is the culprit here.  If anything, I would blame the system that Wilson had, but even then, you can't explain away the soft goals that need to be saved.

 

[princedpw]

I was really only saying it is weird that he has as many shutouts as those goalies, who I would expect to have more.  Hence why I didn't go any further with it.

Sure. Fair enough. I think it is just random luck.

 

[Tigger]

The idea that goaltending is the biggest hole on the team is a gigantic red herring I think.  It's the team's defense that has been atrocious this year--these guys have been more prone to poor coverage, bad positioning, terrible decisionmaking, poor passing, etc., than any team I can remember, and the goaltenders' stats/confidence has really suffered as a result.  Early on their feisty offense helped disguise their defensive ineptitude but these things even out over time.

[Edit: Witness the number of shutouts this year.  When the team's defenders actually show up for a game, or for a stretch of games as occurred with Gus in January, our goalies are fine and dandy.]

Truth is, Burke amassed an overpaid, soft, sloppy bunch of defenders and forwards, and he compounded his mistake by sticking with a coach long after he had quite clearly lost the dressing room.  This team has zero identity, and Burke deserves the lion's share of the blame for that.

Can you please explain to me then the horrible goal in the NJ game in OT where Gus gives up a bad goal when it was going wide?  Or how about all the soft goals he gives up (which is at least once a game) throughout this whole season?  I think you're letting the goalies off too easy.  Sure the defense has had its struggles, but the defense wouldn't be struggling if the goalies merely made the routine save.  I look at other teams and their goalies don't give up soft goals through the legs from past the slot on a wrist shot.  They don't overplay the shots putting themselves out of position.  With Gus' size, he shouldn't have to move much around the net, yet he does and opens up one side of the net.  I'm sorry, but I don't buy the defensive is the culprit here.  If anything, I would blame the system that Wilson had, but even then, you can't explain away the soft goals that need to be saved.

You didn't mention Reimer in there, are you saying the same about him?

Fwiw I agree the Leafs needed better goaltending all around this year, plenty were aware of that need from the get go ( though of the two Jonas wasn't the biggest problem to me this season ) but to suggest team defence wasn't a hefty problem is pretty wrong headed.

 

[riff raff]

Rumor has it Reimer is starting tonight. That would make sense if they are now accepting the fact that they will probably (!) not make the playoffs.

Start the goalie who will be around next year instead of the one who gives you the best chance (!) to win.

 

[Zee]

Rumor has it Reimer is starting tonight. That would make sense if they are now accepting the fact that they will probably (!) not make the playoffs.

Start the goalie who will be around next year instead of the one who gives you the best chance (!) to win.

Seems like Carlyle has gotten on board with the whole Tank Nation? thought process by starting Reimer now.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Rumor has it Reimer is starting tonight. That would make sense if they are now accepting the fact that they will probably (!) not make the playoffs.

Start the goalie who will be around next year instead of the one who gives you the best chance (!) to win.

Seems like Carlyle has gotten on board with the whole Tank Nation? thought process by starting Reimer now.

This pretty much guarantees Reimer will be a beast.

 

[Zee]

Rumor has it Reimer is starting tonight. That would make sense if they are now accepting the fact that they will probably (!) not make the playoffs.

Start the goalie who will be around next year instead of the one who gives you the best chance (!) to win.

Seems like Carlyle has gotten on board with the whole Tank Nation? thought process by starting Reimer now.

This pretty much guarantees Reimer will be a beast.

Yes, I've somehow jinxed the entire season and have never ripped Reimer before this.

 

[The Red Polar Bear]

Rumor has it Reimer is starting tonight. That would make sense if they are now accepting the fact that they will probably (!) not make the playoffs.

Start the goalie who will be around next year instead of the one who gives you the best chance (!) to win.

Seems like Carlyle has gotten on board with the whole Tank Nation? thought process by starting Reimer now.

This pretty much guarantees Reimer will be a beast.

Yes, I've somehow jinxed the entire season and have never ripped Reimer before this.

I think that this is just the same thing that they did with Gus. They gave Gus a bunch of games in a row to see what he has for next year, and now they're going to see what happens when Reimer gets a bunch of starts in a row.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

Rumor has it Reimer is starting tonight. That would make sense if they are now accepting the fact that they will probably (!) not make the playoffs.

Start the goalie who will be around next year instead of the one who gives you the best chance (!) to win.

Seems like Carlyle has gotten on board with the whole Tank Nation? thought process by starting Reimer now.

This pretty much guarantees Reimer will be a beast.

Yes, I've somehow jinxed the entire season and have never ripped Reimer before this.

I think that this is just the same thing that they did with Gus. They gave Gus a bunch of games in a row to see what he has for next year, and now they're going to see what happens when Reimer gets a bunch of starts in a row.

Why do they need to see what happens when we all know that whether it's Gus or Reimer, the result will be more losses?  Regardless, both goalies have been decent enough this season to earn consideration for roster spots next season.

 

[drummond]

Listening to Carlyle after Florida game, I guess Gus would play the rest of the season except for some back-to-back games.

 

[Arn]

Would it be worth bringing up Scrivens or one of the other farm goalies for the odd spot start in back to backs to see how they go?

 

[Strangelove]

Would it be worth bringing up Scrivens or one of the other farm goalies for the odd spot start in back to backs to see how they go?

Why?  Gus has played well enough to win since Carlyle took over.

Reimer truly looks done.  It'll be interesting to see how they deal with him in the offseason.

 

[cw]

Would it be worth bringing up Scrivens or one of the other farm goalies for the odd spot start in back to backs to see how they go?

They've exhausted their AHL callups except in an emergency.

 

[Peter D.]

Would it be worth bringing up Scrivens or one of the other farm goalies for the odd spot start in back to backs to see how they go?

Why?  Gus has played well enough to win since Carlyle took over.

Reimer truly looks done.  It'll be interesting to see how they deal with him in the offseason.

A couple months ago I thought it'd be no way possible, but it would not surprise me if the Leafs retain Gustavsson and move Reimer instead. 

I cannot believe how far Reimer's game has fallen.  It's easy to point to the injury, and I subscribe to that theory, but that doesn't necessarily explain why he looks like a completely different goalie (style, positioning, etc.).  He looks shattered.

 

[Corn Flake]

Would it be worth bringing up Scrivens or one of the other farm goalies for the odd spot start in back to backs to see how they go?

Why?  Gus has played well enough to win since Carlyle took over.

Reimer truly looks done.  It'll be interesting to see how they deal with him in the offseason.

A couple months ago I thought it'd be no way possible, but it would not surprise me if the Leafs retain Gustavsson and move Reimer instead. 

I cannot believe how far Reimer's game has fallen.  It's easy to point to the injury, and I subscribe to that theory, but that doesn't necessarily explain why he looks like a completely different goalie (style, positioning, etc.).  He looks shattered.

Its well beyond the injury at this point, but the injury I think got the ball rolling downhill to the point now where he has about as much confidence as Droopy.

 

[Peter D.]

Its well beyond the injury at this point, but the injury I think got the ball rolling downhill to the point now where he has about as much confidence as Droopy.

Absolutely.  I wanted to say that people used Miller's struggles after his injury to somewhat justify Reimer's play, but Miller has turned it around.  Not to say that Miller and Reimer are on the same wavelength, but the injury/reason can't be used completely.

Last night, after the Kopecky goal, Reimer pointed in the direction of him or the defenceman (was it Phaneuf?).  I don't know if that was his way of signalling interference or pointing out his d-man, but he has NEVER done that before.  Completely uncharacteristic of him.  Also the stoned pose, closing of the eyes, and exhaling of frustration was never part of his demeanour last year either. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Its well beyond the injury at this point, but the injury I think got the ball rolling downhill to the point now where he has about as much confidence as Droopy.

Absolutely.  I wanted to say that people used Miller's struggles after his injury to somewhat justify Reimer's play, but Miller has turned it around.  Not to say that Miller and Reimer are on the same wavelength, but the injury/reason can't be used completely.

Last night, after the Kopecky goal, Reimer pointed in the direction of him or the defenceman (was it Phaneuf?).  I don't know if that was his way of signalling interference or pointing out his d-man, but he has NEVER done that before.  Completely uncharacteristic of him.  Also the stoned pose, closing of the eyes, and exhaling of frustration was never part of his demeanour last year either.

He's frustrated nothing has gone right this season for him.  He had a great 30+ games in the NHL last season, so there was no need for frustration.