Kings @ Maple Leafs - Oct. 31st, 8:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590

[azzurri63]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/11/01/game-in-10-maple-leafs-kings-game-9/

10.  William Nylander put five shots on net in this game and was the only Leaf who really created much of anything. John Tavares recorded four shots on net and led Leafs forwards in ice time. Auston Matthews made a few solo attempts but received little support and played 18:43.

Mitch Marner played one less second than Tavares at 19:24 and truly did not accomplish anything. This was a very sensible situation in which to bench him, plain and simple. The fact that he picked up an assist after this game was all but over was honestly infuriating more than anything else. He didn?t deserve the ice time much less the point.

Marner is a lot better than he has played this season, and at some point, he will pop off. In the meantime, he shouldn?t be trotted out without any form of accountability when he is playing well below the expected standard. Apparently, though, #16 is immune to a benching.

There is no accountability on this team.

 

[Bender]

You can go through any GM's track record and find good and bad moves. Bottom line is Domi and Bertuzzi have to start justifying their salaries or it's going to be a long season.

Absolutely true.

But I think the issue is that none of Treliving?s moves so far have looked good, and the Reaves one is just baffling. And in fairness many of us felt that way when the signing happened.

What possessed him to look at Reaves and say ?yeah, this is the kind of player we need for 3 years?. 

This is true, we've seen this song and dance before. Wayne Simmonds, Kyle Clifford etc. etc.

 

[azzurri63]

Domi doing stupid nonsense...spend more time playing hockey.  You couldn't be bothered to do anything when the game mattered

There?s a reason Dubas had no interest in Beetuzzi and Domi.

We're revering Dubas' decision making now?

I am, yes.

Because he was so great in 5yrs, right? And always made great evaluations, right? And just because someone doesn't come here, definitely means there wasn't any interest on either side, right? Right.

This is such a bizarro board when players go cold or when the Leafs lose a few.

No kidding. The team is coming of a 3-1-1 road trip and 1 night later they are complete garbage. Bi-polar at best.

In regards to Dubas, he spent the farm in Pittsburgh and everyone applauded him this summer. Not sure if anyone has looked at their record but the Penguins sit in last place in the Metropolitan, last place in the East and 29th in the NHL. He certainly makes great decisions.

We can criticize Domi and Bertuzzi if we like. We can criticize Treliving's roster decisions in the 5 months he's been here. But come on, 75-85% of this team is of Dubas' decisions. So if we're going to point the finger......

I think deep down it's the play of the team that's concerning whether winning or losing. If all some here look at is record then all is fine but looking at the bigger picture team looks worse than last year. You can argue give it more time with the new additions but to me there are issues. Yes they were 3-1-1 on the road trip but looked horrible in 2 games and in one of them won. Games against Chicago and Montreal at home earlier in the year were brutal. Biggest issue I have is with the core and always have. Way too inconsistent for me. Marner has been trash and although Matthews has potted 7 goals he's been so so and after the first 2 games hasn't done much. Maybe we expect too much but I'd just settle for a little more consistency and earn the big paydays especially Marner. Treliving has a lot of work to do and good luck with the way the team was handed over.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

This is true, we've seen this song and dance before. Wayne Simmonds, Kyle Clifford etc. etc.

I'll be curious to compare his on-ice numbers after 20 games to how Simmonds and Clifford performed in the final seasons they played here. Clifford played 23 games in 21/22, while Simmonds had 18 games last year (I genuinely didn't remember him playing that much lol). Don't think it'd be fair to lay them all out right now because a small sample size likely hurts Reaves but right now it's much, much worse.

 

[L K]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/11/01/game-in-10-maple-leafs-kings-game-9/

10.  William Nylander put five shots on net in this game and was the only Leaf who really created much of anything. John Tavares recorded four shots on net and led Leafs forwards in ice time. Auston Matthews made a few solo attempts but received little support and played 18:43.

Mitch Marner played one less second than Tavares at 19:24 and truly did not accomplish anything. This was a very sensible situation in which to bench him, plain and simple. The fact that he picked up an assist after this game was all but over was honestly infuriating more than anything else. He didn?t deserve the ice time much less the point.

Marner is a lot better than he has played this season, and at some point, he will pop off. In the meantime, he shouldn?t be trotted out without any form of accountability when he is playing well below the expected standard. Apparently, though, #16 is immune to a benching.

There is no accountability on this team.

I get the argument that Reaves is truly a heavyweight fighter.  It's just that we know that enforcers don't stop goons from acting like goons.  Reaves being on the ice for 6-7 bad minutes but then fighting someone isn't going to change anything.  A 2nd line rat like Sam Bennett isn't going to fight Reaves. 

Then even when we played Florida a week ago, Reaves did nothing.  That was a game that should have been a statement game.  Last night should have been a statement game where Reaves tries to throw a big hit or get in a fight to start momentum and he did nothing.  So he's a terrible hockey player who also doesn't do the job we want him to do.  He shouldn't be playing.

 

[Joe S.]

You can go through any GM's track record and find good and bad moves. Bottom line is Domi and Bertuzzi have to start justifying their salaries or it's going to be a long season.

Absolutely true.

But I think the issue is that none of Treliving?s moves so far have looked good, and the Reaves one is just baffling. And in fairness many of us felt that way when the signing happened.

What possessed him to look at Reaves and say ?yeah, this is the kind of player we need for 3 years?. 

This is true, we've seen this song and dance before. Wayne Simmonds, Kyle Clifford etc. etc.

Yup I agree with this.

 

[Zee]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/11/01/game-in-10-maple-leafs-kings-game-9/

10.  William Nylander put five shots on net in this game and was the only Leaf who really created much of anything. John Tavares recorded four shots on net and led Leafs forwards in ice time. Auston Matthews made a few solo attempts but received little support and played 18:43.

Mitch Marner played one less second than Tavares at 19:24 and truly did not accomplish anything. This was a very sensible situation in which to bench him, plain and simple. The fact that he picked up an assist after this game was all but over was honestly infuriating more than anything else. He didn?t deserve the ice time much less the point.

Marner is a lot better than he has played this season, and at some point, he will pop off. In the meantime, he shouldn?t be trotted out without any form of accountability when he is playing well below the expected standard. Apparently, though, #16 is immune to a benching.

There is no accountability on this team.

I get the argument that Reaves is truly a heavyweight fighter.  It's just that we know that enforcers don't stop goons from acting like goons.  Reaves being on the ice for 6-7 bad minutes but then fighting someone isn't going to change anything.  A 2nd line rat like Sam Bennett isn't going to fight Reaves. 

Then even when we played Florida a week ago, Reaves did nothing.  That was a game that should have been a statement game.  Last night should have been a statement game where Reaves tries to throw a big hit or get in a fight to start momentum and he did nothing.  So he's a terrible hockey player who also doesn't do the job we want him to do.  He shouldn't be playing.

Even by the low expectations I had for Reaves going in he's been particularly bad.  4th line is pretty useless right now.

 

[dappleganger]

It's hard to make the argument right now letting Lafferty go and keeping Reaves was the better move.

 

[ZBBM]

It's hard to make the argument right now letting Lafferty go and keeping Reaves was the better move.

Speaking of Lafferty, to that point, in a larger context:

BURNERS
Mikheyev > Kapanen  > Lafferty > Gregor

And while I'm shooting off about long-term slippage:

DIGGERS
Hyman > Bunting > Bertuzzi

 

[Arn]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/11/01/game-in-10-maple-leafs-kings-game-9/

10.  William Nylander put five shots on net in this game and was the only Leaf who really created much of anything. John Tavares recorded four shots on net and led Leafs forwards in ice time. Auston Matthews made a few solo attempts but received little support and played 18:43.

Mitch Marner played one less second than Tavares at 19:24 and truly did not accomplish anything. This was a very sensible situation in which to bench him, plain and simple. The fact that he picked up an assist after this game was all but over was honestly infuriating more than anything else. He didn?t deserve the ice time much less the point.

Marner is a lot better than he has played this season, and at some point, he will pop off. In the meantime, he shouldn?t be trotted out without any form of accountability when he is playing well below the expected standard. Apparently, though, #16 is immune to a benching.

There is no accountability on this team.

I get the argument that Reaves is truly a heavyweight fighter.  It's just that we know that enforcers don't stop goons from acting like goons.  Reaves being on the ice for 6-7 bad minutes but then fighting someone isn't going to change anything.  A 2nd line rat like Sam Bennett isn't going to fight Reaves. 

Then even when we played Florida a week ago, Reaves did nothing.  That was a game that should have been a statement game.  Last night should have been a statement game where Reaves tries to throw a big hit or get in a fight to start momentum and he did nothing.  So he's a terrible hockey player who also doesn't do the job we want him to do.  He shouldn't be playing.

Even by the low expectations I had for Reaves going in he's been particularly bad.  4th line is pretty useless right now.

And by extension 3rd line is struggling. And then there?s no flexibility to mix things up with lines 1 and 2.

So we?ve almost ended up with the old Burke top 6, bottom 6 theory in action and have no depth and there?s no real way of making even 3 balanced lines never mind 4 to try different things.

 

[Frank E]

I'm of the thought that the whole 4th line thing is probably just a red herring...Matthews and Marner aren't scoring, and they lost 3-2 in OT vs. Preds and 4-1 last night.  This is not Ryan Reaves' responsibility.

This is goal scoring problem, not a 4th line problem.  There's a responsibility that comes with signing $10m AAV contracts, and in their case it's generating offense because the Leafs certainly can't afford to pay anyone else to.  So when the elite few don't score, you're not going to win too many games.  It's the way the team is built.  You want to keep Nylander at $10m?  Well then you're probably not going to see much scoring depth save for some young gun on an ELC.

Now, having said that, I might have preferred Reaves go out there and hit anything that moves into next week to try and generate some sort of emotional response of out this bunch.

 

[Bender]

I'm of the thought that the whole 4th line thing is probably just a red herring...Matthews and Marner aren't scoring, and they lost 3-2 in OT vs. Preds and 4-1 last night.  This is not Ryan Reaves' responsibility.

This is goal scoring problem, not a 4th line problem.  There's a responsibility that comes with signing $10m AAV contracts, and in their case it's generating offense because the Leafs certainly can't afford to pay anyone else to.  So when the elite few don't score, you're not going to win too many games.  It's the way the team is built.  You want to keep Nylander at $10m?  Well then you're probably not going to see much scoring depth save for some young gun on an ELC.

Now, having said that, I might have preferred Reaves go out there and hit anything that moves into next week to try and generate some sort of emotional response of out this bunch.

This comes back to the depth issue and constantly having to churn it due to the concentration of cap in 4 players. That's how it was and will always be until they recalibrate their cap space. Dubas took cheaper flyers on players but we were never going to get another Bunting, and Mikheyev was a rarity.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

This is goal scoring problem, not a 4th line problem.  There's a responsibility that comes with signing $10m AAV contracts, and in their case it's generating offense because the Leafs certainly can't afford to pay anyone else to.  So when the elite few don't score, you're not going to win too many games.  It's the way the team is built.  You want to keep Nylander at $10m?  Well then you're probably not going to see much scoring depth save for some young gun on an ELC.

The Leafs spent $16.4mil on 5 players who have a combined 2 goals so far this season (zero at 5-on-5). And the biggest chunk of that went to 3 players who were brought in specifically because of their offence. Now I'm not trying to say that was a complete waste of money since I think some of those players can still rebound and be valuable, but I think the idea that the big-4 has left the team with no cap room for other scorers is not entirely true.

 

[herman]

https://x.com/frankcorrado22/status/1720129682652205125

 

[L K]

This is goal scoring problem, not a 4th line problem.  There's a responsibility that comes with signing $10m AAV contracts, and in their case it's generating offense because the Leafs certainly can't afford to pay anyone else to.  So when the elite few don't score, you're not going to win too many games.  It's the way the team is built.  You want to keep Nylander at $10m?  Well then you're probably not going to see much scoring depth save for some young gun on an ELC.

The Leafs spent $16.4mil on 5 players who have a combined 2 goals so far this season (zero at 5-on-5). And the biggest chunk of that went to 3 players who were brought in specifically because of their offence. Now I'm not trying to say that was a complete waste of money since I think some of those players can still rebound and be valuable, but I think the idea that the big-4 has left the team with no cap room for other scorers is not entirely true.

The Kampf signing is really annoying me right now.  He needs to be on the 4th line.  The 4th line needs to be a defensive line though so not having two other 4th line players to play defensive hockey makes his place on the roster really out of place.  2.4M for a guy who can't generate any offence but also doesn't have a line that fits.  It felt like a panic to O'Reilly signing with Nashville to overspend on Kampf.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

https://twitter.com/frankcorrado22/status/1720129682652205125

I like the idea of Corrado analyzing the games like this. But I also think he's pulling things out of thin air. He's making errors up to push his point.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

This is goal scoring problem, not a 4th line problem.  There's a responsibility that comes with signing $10m AAV contracts, and in their case it's generating offense because the Leafs certainly can't afford to pay anyone else to.  So when the elite few don't score, you're not going to win too many games.  It's the way the team is built.  You want to keep Nylander at $10m?  Well then you're probably not going to see much scoring depth save for some young gun on an ELC.

The Leafs spent $16.4mil on 5 players who have a combined 2 goals so far this season (zero at 5-on-5). And the biggest chunk of that went to 3 players who were brought in specifically because of their offence. Now I'm not trying to say that was a complete waste of money since I think some of those players can still rebound and be valuable, but I think the idea that the big-4 has left the team with no cap room for other scorers is not entirely true.

The Kampf signing is really annoying me right now.  He needs to be on the 4th line.  The 4th line needs to be a defensive line though so not having two other 4th line players to play defensive hockey makes his place on the roster really out of place.  2.4M for a guy who can't generate any offence but also doesn't have a line that fits.  It felt like a panic to O'Reilly signing with Nashville to overspend on Kampf.

I've always thought of the 3rd line as the shutdown/defensive line. The 4th line is a "well, we need to rest the other 9 guys at some point" line. You're not going to purposely have your 4th line out against anyone other than the other 4th line. And you certainly aren't going to give them any defensive face offs. Not unless they ice the puck(which happens way too often).

 

[herman]

I like the idea of Corrado analyzing the games like this. But I also think he's pulling things out of thin air. He's making errors up to push his point.

Sometimes you can just get beat by a player even after doing everything right.

In this case, it's pretty clear before he loops out of frame that Kampf gave up body position on Dubois, who just rolled off him. It's uncharacteristic of Kampf.

Hockey's a game of taking advantage of mistakes.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/frankcorrado22/status/1720129682652205125

I like the idea of Corrado analyzing the games like this. But I also think he's pulling things out of thin air. He's making errors up to push his point.

But it is an error. The game is filled with them, big and small. I'm betting Keefe and company go over little details like this with the team.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I like the idea of Corrado analyzing the games like this. But I also think he's pulling things out of thin air. He's making errors up to push his point.

Sometimes you can just get beat by a player even after doing everything right.

In this case, it's pretty clear before he loops out of frame that Kampf gave up body position on Dubois, who just rolled off him. It's uncharacteristic of Kampf.

Hockey's a game of taking advantage of mistakes.

It def is uncharacteristic of Kampf.