Leafs @ Bruins - Jan. 14th, 7:00pm - SN, SN 590

[Stickytape]

My internet died so I just finished it now - the amount of non-calls in the last few minutes was INSANE.  Holy, I can't even believe that, even with the low opinion I have of the refs to begin with.

More than anything, that's what made it feel eerily familiar.

 

[Bonsixx]

I have little doubt that if Reimer was in net and had let in a tying goal there the knives would be out and he'd be crucified.

It certainly wouldn't have been good.  That being said, Bernier also got very lucky with a few pucks going off the post, rolling wide of the puck when he wasn't in a position to make a save if the puck had been headed toward the net.  He was a bit scrambly there in the final few minutes.

The main thing is the puck stayed out. He was huge in the third period, in particular. I'm not about to argue whether he would've gotten to shots that never happened. He stopped the ones that did.

Hopefully this provides some kind of boost for this team. Lord knows they need one.

 

[Peter D.]

Fell asleep after it was 3-2. Unexpected result. Did not expect a regulation win against the Bruins of all teams.

Hopefully there isn't a let down against a far inferior opponent tomorrow against the Sabres. Need to gain some momentum here.

 

[pmrules]

Just watched the game on the PVR.

Great game by the leafs.  A much better lineup, much better player management, and a great ending, despite the non calls.

Bernier was great.  Marchand continues to be the biggest pest in the league. Bozak was fantastic. 

I really wonder what would have happened had Bozak played in that final game in May.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Those last few seconds near the end of the game awfully resembled last year's Game 7 collapse -- Chara in front of Bernier, Bergeron's shot blocked by Gleason, JVR desperately going down ice for the empty netter -- yet the difference being that the end result was positive and that the Bruins were unable to pull it off against some of the different Leaf players this time (Bernier, Gleason), plus the Leafs determination to win.

Very important "symbolic" victory.  Great effort.

Winning goaltender Jonathan Bernier, who was still a Los Angeles King when the Collapse on Causeway occurred, didn?t even hesitate when he was asked what he hoped the Leafs would take from the night.

?Maturity,? he said. ?It?s not easy to come into this building, especially with what they went through last year losing Game 7. It shows a lot of character for that team to come here and win it."

Gleason....literally dive into the slot and stop a Patrice Bergeron point shot right in its tracks.

?I just had to do something,? said Gleason.

?I?m probably not going to give you 20 goals,? added the stay-at-home defenceman. ?If I can do that, that?ll make (up for it). ? I can block a shot or two to help the team out."

"Hopefully it bleeds some of the demons out of us ? that we can come in and have success in any building,? said Carlyle. ?To be a good team, to be a playoff team, to be a team that?s going to challenge (for the Stanley Cup), you have to win on the road."

?It almost felt like it was the playoffs again and this time we came out on top,? said defenceman Jake Gardiner. ?It?s just too bad that it wasn?t last year that that happened."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-survive-for-symbolic-win-in-boston/

 

[maplesyrup]

Well that was unexpected.

 

[Kin]

Have the advanced stats guys weighed in on whether we can be happy with this win? Because I'm like halfway there.

The Team Success Happiness Quotient measures 52.3% tonight, which means that happiness is indeed permitted.

Good. I rounded up anyway.

 

[Leafaholic99]

The last 10 minutes or so of the game was deja vu, seemed so much like a playoff game, and like game 7 last year. I kept telling my co-workers I was watching with to shutup as the game wasn't over again, thankfully the result was good this time, got me pumped up for playoff hockey again, the better make it.

 

[Redleaf]

Looks like the Leafs will regain a rather tenuous grasp on a playoff spot.

Beginning of a strong push for the playoffs, or just a final sputter or two before they sink out of contention?

BTW. This is the inconsistency I speak about with this team. They haven't been consistently bad every outing. Once and a while they show us what may lie ahead with this squad as they gain more confidence and experience.

 

[freer]

Looks like the Leafs will regain a rather tenuous grasp on a playoff spot.

Beginning of a strong push for the playoffs, or just a final sputter or two before they sink out of contention?

BTW. This is the inconsistency I speak about with this team. They haven't been consistently bad every outing. Once and a while they show us what may lie ahead with this squad as they gain more confidence and experience.

Well lets hope they can keep it up. They started playing better after the player only meeting. SO maybe they do have some leadership in the room

 

[bustaheims]

BTW. This is the inconsistency I speak about with this team. They haven't been consistently bad every outing. Once and a while they show us what may lie ahead with this squad as they gain more confidence and experience.

I've always understood what you were talking about, I've just never agreed that it's because of inexperience, and I still don't. After all, there are only 4 skaters getting meaningful ice time that don't have 4 or more season as full time NHLers under their belts. Consistency is definitely an issue. Experience is not.

 

[Redleaf]

BTW. This is the inconsistency I speak about with this team. They haven't been consistently bad every outing. Once and a while they show us what may lie ahead with this squad as they gain more confidence and experience.

I've always understood what you were talking about, I've just never agreed that it's because of inexperience, and I still don't. After all, there are only 4 skaters getting meaningful ice time that don't have 4 or more season as full time NHLers under their belts. Consistency is definitely an issue. Experience is not.

Without doing a league wide comparison of NHL players, I will assume that players under the age of 25, and with a grand total of 7 playoff games on their resumes, are generally considered inexperienced.

 

[bustaheims]

Without doing a league wide comparison of NHL players, I will assume that players under the age of 25, and with a grand total of 7 playoff games on their resumes, are generally considered inexperienced.

Experience is based on time served, not age. They're a young team, yes, but they're not an inexperienced team. They don't have a lot of playoff experience, sure, but, we're not talking about poor play in the playoffs, either, and most of the roster does have more than those 7 games worth of playoff experience.

EDIT: There are only 3 skaters that meet your standards of being 25 or under and have 7 games or less of NHL playoff experience who have been getting meaningful ice time - Kadri, Gardiner and Rielly. Everyone else is either 26 or older, or has more playoff experience.

 

[Redleaf]

Without doing a league wide comparison of NHL players, I will assume that players under the age of 25, and with a grand total of 7 playoff games on their resumes, are generally considered inexperienced.

Experience is based on time served, not age. They're a young team, yes, but they're not an inexperienced team. They don't have a lot of playoff experience, sure, but, we're not talking about poor play in the playoffs, either, and most of the roster does have more than those 7 games worth of playoff experience.

EDIT: There are only 3 skaters that meet your standards of being 25 or under and have 7 games or less of NHL playoff experience who have been getting meaningful ice time - Kadri, Gardiner and Rielly. Everyone else is either 26 or older, or has more playoff experience.

Bernier, Reimer and van Reimsdyk and Holland are all 25 and under. Kessel and Bozak aren't exactly what I'd call grizzled veterans just yet. Point is this team does not consist of many experienced NHL players as a whole (playoff & reg. season games/age), compared to the more veteran laden teams in the league. I'd be interested in seeing the league numbers comparing players by way of playoff/reg. season games played and age. I would imagine those number would support my stance, but I certainly don't have the time do run all the numbers.

BTW. What are you basing your conclusion, that they are a well experienced NHL team, on? I'd be interested in hearing those arguments.

 

[bustaheims]

Bernier, Reimer and van Reimsdyk and Holland are all 25 and under. Kessel and Bozak aren't exactly what I'd call veteran players just yet. Point is this team does not consist of many experienced NHL players as a whole (playoff & reg. season games/age), compared to the more veteran laden teams in the league. I'd be interested in seeing the league numbers comparing players by way of playoff/reg. season games played and age. I would imagine those number would support my stance, but I certainly don't have the time do run all the numbers.

I excluded the goalies for a reason - the issues this team is having really have nothing to do with their play. They're the only reason the team isn't near the very bottom of the standings. I left off Holland because he hasn't been a regular, nor has he always seen meaningful ice time. As for the rest, you need to stop moving your fence posts. You said players under 25 with only 7 games of playoff experience. There are 3 of them. As for the players your brought up, Kessel is absolutely a veteran. He's in his 8th NHL season. Veteran status is not something earned by age. It's something that gets earned by experience, and he has plenty. So do Bozak, JvR, etc. This is not an inexperienced team.

BTW. What are you basing your conclusion that they are a well experienced NHL team on?

Based on the fact that, outside of 3 skaters who have seen meaningful ice time and have been regulars all season, every player on the roster has more than enough NHL experience to no long be considered an inexperienced player. There are also very few players under the age of 25, so, while they're a younger team, they're not an immature team (by NHL standards, at least - a 25 year old player is not an immature player). They may not have many "grizzled veteran" types, but they're not so devoid of experience that it should be used to excuse their play. Outside of a handful of guys, they've all been in this league long enough to understand what it takes to win games.

 

[Redleaf]

Just curious, and without moving around posts, what criteria do think would be best in gauging a player and /or team's overall experience level compared to everybody else?

Playoff games, regular season games, age, something else?

 

[bustaheims]

Playoff games, regular season games, age, something else?

Age is pretty irrelevant when it comes to experience - experience is based on, well, relevant experience, not having had x amount of birthdays - so, I'd throw that out right away. I generally say a player that has 3+ full seasons under their belt, they're no longer inexperienced. By that point, they've played more than 200 NHL games. Playoff games on their own are really only relevant to how experienced a player is in the playoffs. As for a team's level of experience, it would have to related to the amount of experience of the regulars in the lineup who are getting enough ice time for it to be considered meaningful (I'd say that's somewhere in the 8-10 minute range). If a team doesn't have more than a handful of guys with less than 3 full seasons on their roster, then I'd say they're not an inexperienced team.

 

[losveratos]

Playoff games, regular season games, age, something else?

Age is pretty irrelevant when it comes to experience - experience is based on, well, relevant experience, not having had x amount of birthdays - so, I'd throw that out right away. I generally say a player that has 3+ full seasons under their belt, they're no longer inexperienced. By that point, they've played more than 200 NHL games. Playoff games on their own are really only relevant to how experienced a player is in the playoffs. As for a team's level of experience, it would have to related to the amount of experience of the regulars in the lineup who are getting enough ice time for it to be considered meaningful (I'd say that's somewhere in the 8-10 minute range). If a team doesn't have more than a handful of guys with less than 3 full seasons on their roster, then I'd say they're not an inexperienced team.

Maybe we can just throw an extra word into this conversation and call it a day?

Maturity.

I'm almost 30 now and I remember me when I have 25ish. Fairly different person with very different drive and compete levels.

I think we can all agree that players like Kessel and his large resume of games are experienced. But perhaps the inconsistencies that occasionally happen with him or some of the other young players are due to not being as matured in the league as say a Jagr/Alfie/Chara/whatever other older player you can think of off the top of your head.

 

[Redleaf]

Playoff games, regular season games, age, something else?

Age is pretty irrelevant when it comes to experience - experience is based on, well, relevant experience, not having had x amount of birthdays - so, I'd throw that out right away. I generally say a player that has 3+ full seasons under their belt, they're no longer inexperienced. By that point, they've played more than 200 NHL games. Playoff games on their own are really only relevant to how experienced a player is in the playoffs. As for a team's level of experience, it would have to related to the amount of experience of the regulars in the lineup who are getting enough ice time for it to be considered meaningful (I'd say that's somewhere in the 8-10 minute range). If a team doesn't have more than a handful of guys with less than 3 full seasons on their roster, then I'd say they're not an inexperienced team.

Maybe we can just throw an extra word into this conversation and call it a day?

Maturity.

I'm almost 30 now and I remember me when I have 25ish. Fairly different person with very different drive and compete levels.

I think we can all agree that players like Kessel and his large resume of games are experienced. But perhaps the inconsistencies that occasionally happen with him or some of the other young players are due to not being as matured in the league as say a Jagr/Alfie/Chara/whatever other older player you can think of off the top of your head.

That's a good point, and I'll leave this discussion with one last point. Will this team get better as it ages, matures and gains more experience? Because if age and maturity are non factors to this teams future success than the answer should be a resounding 'NO' to that question. In other words, If you believe this current squad has enough experience and should be more effective, than you must also believe this team has no room to grow and, if left alone, will not improve whatsoever down the road. It's no wonder those believers want to make big time changes right now.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Have the advanced stats guys weighed in on whether we can be happy with this win? Because I'm like halfway there.

I tuned into the Leaf's post-game show on TSN radio about an hour after the game, and the commentary was vitriolic.  If I didn't watch the game I would have thought the players spent the intermissions keying cars and drowning kittens.  So, be angry with the win.  Very, very angry.