Leafs @ Bruins - Jan. 14th, 7:00pm - SN, SN 590

[GhostofPotvin29]

I tuned into the Leaf's post-game show on TSN radio about an hour after the game, and the commentary was vitriolic.  If I didn't watch the game I would have thought the players spent the intermissions keying cars and drowning kittens.  So, be angry with the win.  Very, very angry.

I was super excited they won, watched the highlights many times, but I can also recognize the Bruins outshot them 31-17 at even-strength and they had to rely on Bernier again (not discounting some great sacrifices at the end).  I don't think it's mutually exclusive that you have to either enjoy winning the game and not point out any issues or not enjoy winning the games while pointing out issues.

There's this idea that enjoying "advanced stats" somehow means you don't enjoy the games.  I still look forward to every game and love watching every game.  If anything, it enhances my enjoyment of the game.

 

[Kin]

I tuned into the Leaf's post-game show on TSN radio about an hour after the game, and the commentary was vitriolic.  If I didn't watch the game I would have thought the players spent the intermissions keying cars and drowning kittens.  So, be angry with the win.  Very, very angry.

Well, exactly. Leafs fandom has always had something of an issue with tone but it's gotten fairly ridiculous in some circles. I think there are a lot of people out there who think that if you aren't constantly complaining about the ways that the team fell short, even in wins, that you somehow think that the team is unfailingly perfect.

It's the thing I never understood during the team's hot start. Even if every conceivable statistical indication said that the start was unsustainable there was nothing fun about dwelling on that. I mean, nobody, other than Eeyore I suppose, thinks that you should spend sunny days talking about how it's probably going to rain tomorrow.

 

[bustaheims]

That's a good point, and I'll leave this discussion with one last point. Will this team get better as it ages, matures and gains more experience? Because if age and maturity are non factors to this teams future success than the answer should be a resounding 'NO' to that question. In other words, If you believe this current squad has enough experience and should be more effective, than you must also believe this team has no room to grow and, if left alone, will not improve whatsoever down the road. It's no wonder those believers want to make big time changes right now.

If there are no changes to the roster or to the coaching staff, then, no, I don't think this team will improve in any significant fashion, but, obviously, that's not how things work. The roster will change. The coaching staff will change. The management will change. How players are used and who the play with will change. All those things will change how the team performs. I mean, outside of Kadri, Holland, Gardiner and Rielly, there isn't really much, if any, growth that should be expected from players on the roster. They've all been in the league long enough to have shown what type of players they are and where there expected performance levels should be. They are what they are, and they're not going to change in significant positive ways simply because they get older. They're not necessarily going to mature as players, either. Most players, once they hit their mid/late 20s (where most of the team's roster current sits), either don't do so in a noticeable fashion or do so in some areas while sacrificing other areas. If left alone, the team will change as it ages, matures and gains more experience, but, they're rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns in those areas.

 

[Tigger]

Gwg off Chara's stick? That feels good...

 

[Redleaf]

That's a good point, and I'll leave this discussion with one last point. Will this team get better as it ages, matures and gains more experience? Because if age and maturity are non factors to this teams future success than the answer should be a resounding 'NO' to that question. In other words, If you believe this current squad has enough experience and should be more effective, than you must also believe this team has no room to grow and, if left alone, will not improve whatsoever down the road. It's no wonder those believers want to make big time changes right now.

If there are no changes to the roster or to the coaching staff, then, no, I don't think this team will improve in any significant fashion, but, obviously, that's not how things work. The roster will change. The coaching staff will change. The management will change. How players are used and who the play with will change. All those things will change how the team performs. I mean, outside of Kadri, Holland, Gardiner and Rielly, there isn't really much, if any, growth that should be expected from players on the roster. They've all been in the league long enough to have shown what type of players they are and where there expected performance levels should be. They are what they are, and they're not going to change in significant positive ways simply because they get older. They're not necessarily going to mature as players, either. Most players, once they hit their mid/late 20s (where most of the team's roster current sits), either don't do so in a noticeable fashion or do so in some areas while sacrificing other areas. If left alone, the team will change as it ages, matures and gains more experience, but, they're rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns in those areas.

The differences in our viewpoints becomes more and more apparent with each discussion Busta.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

That's a good point, and I'll leave this discussion with one last point. Will this team get better as it ages, matures and gains more experience? Because if age and maturity are non factors to this teams future success than the answer should be a resounding 'NO' to that question. In other words, If you believe this current squad has enough experience and should be more effective, than you must also believe this team has no room to grow and, if left alone, will not improve whatsoever down the road. It's no wonder those believers want to make big time changes right now.

If there are no changes to the roster or to the coaching staff, then, no, I don't think this team will improve in any significant fashion, but, obviously, that's not how things work. The roster will change. The coaching staff will change. The management will change. How players are used and who the play with will change. All those things will change how the team performs. I mean, outside of Kadri, Holland, Gardiner and Rielly, there isn't really much, if any, growth that should be expected from players on the roster. They've all been in the league long enough to have shown what type of players they are and where there expected performance levels should be. They are what they are, and they're not going to change in significant positive ways simply because they get older. They're not necessarily going to mature as players, either. Most players, once they hit their mid/late 20s (where most of the team's roster current sits), either don't do so in a noticeable fashion or do so in some areas while sacrificing other areas. If left alone, the team will change as it ages, matures and gains more experience, but, they're rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns in those areas.

How do you go from being one of the youngest teams last season to a team that's suddenly close to climaxing?

 

[bustaheims]

How do you go from being one of the youngest teams last season to a team that's suddenly close to climaxing?

The average age of the team is really a misleading way to look at things. It's not like the Leafs have a ton of really young players. Most of the roster is 24-28 - for most players, those are the peak years of their production. The Leafs have a bunch of players in or entering their prime years. There's not much room to go up when you're pretty much at your peak - not without some significant changes in strategy, structure, etc.

EDIT: It's also really important to remember that, while the Leafs are among the youngest teams at an average age of ~26.9, the average for an NHL team is 27.5-28. So, it's not like the Leafs are massive outliers. They're on the younger end of the spectrum, but not that far off from most of the teams in the league.

 

[Redleaf]

That's a good point, and I'll leave this discussion with one last point. Will this team get better as it ages, matures and gains more experience? Because if age and maturity are non factors to this teams future success than the answer should be a resounding 'NO' to that question. In other words, If you believe this current squad has enough experience and should be more effective, than you must also believe this team has no room to grow and, if left alone, will not improve whatsoever down the road. It's no wonder those believers want to make big time changes right now.

If there are no changes to the roster or to the coaching staff, then, no, I don't think this team will improve in any significant fashion, but, obviously, that's not how things work. The roster will change. The coaching staff will change. The management will change. How players are used and who the play with will change. All those things will change how the team performs. I mean, outside of Kadri, Holland, Gardiner and Rielly, there isn't really much, if any, growth that should be expected from players on the roster. They've all been in the league long enough to have shown what type of players they are and where there expected performance levels should be. They are what they are, and they're not going to change in significant positive ways simply because they get older. They're not necessarily going to mature as players, either. Most players, once they hit their mid/late 20s (where most of the team's roster current sits), either don't do so in a noticeable fashion or do so in some areas while sacrificing other areas. If left alone, the team will change as it ages, matures and gains more experience, but, they're rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns in those areas.

How do you go from being one of the youngest teams last season to a team that's suddenly close to climaxing?

You don't. And they're not.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

How do you go from being one of the youngest teams last season to a team that's suddenly close to climaxing?

The average age of the team is really a misleading way to look at things. It's not like the Leafs have a ton of really young players. Most of the roster is 24-28 - for most players, those are the peak years of their production. The Leafs have a bunch of players in or entering their prime years. There's not much room to go up when you're pretty much at your peak - not without some significant changes in strategy, structure, etc.

EDIT: It's also really important to remember that, while the Leafs are among the youngest teams at an average age of ~26.9, the average for an NHL team is 27.5-28. So, it's not like the Leafs are massive outliers. They're on the younger end of the spectrum, but not that far off from most of the teams in the league.

But the rest of the league means nothing.

When you have players like Gardiner, Reilly, Kadri, Holland just getting started and players like Kessel and JvR just getting rolling, this team is due to mature and improve because of it. It's not a guarantee. I mean, many players have flatlined after a good season or two....but the general opinion is, these players will only get better.

We're not talking McClemment's and Orr's being 19 - 23 years old...We're talking potential stud dmen and a centerman that could turn into a fantastic playmaking center.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

That's a good point, and I'll leave this discussion with one last point. Will this team get better as it ages, matures and gains more experience? Because if age and maturity are non factors to this teams future success than the answer should be a resounding 'NO' to that question. In other words, If you believe this current squad has enough experience and should be more effective, than you must also believe this team has no room to grow and, if left alone, will not improve whatsoever down the road. It's no wonder those believers want to make big time changes right now.

If there are no changes to the roster or to the coaching staff, then, no, I don't think this team will improve in any significant fashion, but, obviously, that's not how things work. The roster will change. The coaching staff will change. The management will change. How players are used and who the play with will change. All those things will change how the team performs. I mean, outside of Kadri, Holland, Gardiner and Rielly, there isn't really much, if any, growth that should be expected from players on the roster. They've all been in the league long enough to have shown what type of players they are and where there expected performance levels should be. They are what they are, and they're not going to change in significant positive ways simply because they get older. They're not necessarily going to mature as players, either. Most players, once they hit their mid/late 20s (where most of the team's roster current sits), either don't do so in a noticeable fashion or do so in some areas while sacrificing other areas. If left alone, the team will change as it ages, matures and gains more experience, but, they're rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns in those areas.

Alex Steen called.  He wants a word with you... 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

That's a good point, and I'll leave this discussion with one last point. Will this team get better as it ages, matures and gains more experience? Because if age and maturity are non factors to this teams future success than the answer should be a resounding 'NO' to that question. In other words, If you believe this current squad has enough experience and should be more effective, than you must also believe this team has no room to grow and, if left alone, will not improve whatsoever down the road. It's no wonder those believers want to make big time changes right now.

If there are no changes to the roster or to the coaching staff, then, no, I don't think this team will improve in any significant fashion, but, obviously, that's not how things work. The roster will change. The coaching staff will change. The management will change. How players are used and who the play with will change. All those things will change how the team performs. I mean, outside of Kadri, Holland, Gardiner and Rielly, there isn't really much, if any, growth that should be expected from players on the roster. They've all been in the league long enough to have shown what type of players they are and where there expected performance levels should be. They are what they are, and they're not going to change in significant positive ways simply because they get older. They're not necessarily going to mature as players, either. Most players, once they hit their mid/late 20s (where most of the team's roster current sits), either don't do so in a noticeable fashion or do so in some areas while sacrificing other areas. If left alone, the team will change as it ages, matures and gains more experience, but, they're rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns in those areas.

Alex Steen called.  He wants a word with you... 

Don't worry, he ain't gonna be shooting 20.5% for too much longer.