Nonis using depth to go shopping....

[Tigger]

Fair enough, it's a speculative number as well. For me the difference is again one of perception. Players who outright call for a trade through the media go down in the character department, a 'soft' stat if you will.

I think that's true in some cases but a lot less so in the case of a RFA. All Turris would be saying is that he has no interest of signing with Phoenix. That's not exactly the same as demanding a trade.

No but it seems on the fence towards it, Maloney's reaction isn't definitive but I think alludes to something along those lines.

Although even then, he wouldn't have to do it "through the media". He'd just have to make it clear to Maloney that he wouldn't be re-signing.

That's also true and as a result it could be what's happening here to drive some speculation.

It may not be an outright aid but it may foster some respect down the road? I'm projecting here, certainly.

I'm just saying that if I'm Maloney and I hear that Turris wants a number I'm not prepared to give him then it's more or less a negotiation no different from any other contract negotiation where I hope I can get him down to an acceptable range. Being told in no uncertain terms that he wanted out would probably get me a little more motivated to look into a trade before it got into the media and people knew I was behind the 8 ball.

Could be something as simple as a slightly abnormal negotiation situation, though given Turris' leverage it seems like more of a hardline to me.

Maloney might have misread the situation, hard to say but Turris is a top 3 pick, seems like he has potential, I'm sure the last thing Don wanted to do was get fleeced in an early season trade because his hand was forced.

 

[Kin]

Maloney might have misread the situation, hard to say but Turris is a top 3 pick, seems like he has potential, I'm sure the last thing Don wanted to do was get fleeced in an early season trade because his hand was forced.

I'm sure but, realistically, isn't the best time to trade Turris during the summer before any rumours about Turris wanting out gets to the media? Regardless of why Turris isn't happy in Phoenix I think his value is at it's highest before he's missed camp and there are folks like us trying to figure out why he may want a change.

 

[Tigger]

Maloney might have misread the situation, hard to say but Turris is a top 3 pick, seems like he has potential, I'm sure the last thing Don wanted to do was get fleeced in an early season trade because his hand was forced.

I'm sure but, realistically, isn't the best time to trade Turris during the summer before any rumours about Turris wanting out gets to the media? Regardless of why Turris isn't happy in Phoenix I think his value is at it's highest before he's missed camp and there are folks like us trying to figure out why he may want a change.

The summer/draft would have been the best time to do it if it had to happen I agree, maybe things came to a head after the best before date? Maloney seems like a smart gm, it's hard to say, maybe nothing is really wrong and Turris will sign tomorrow.

 

[Kin]

The summer/draft would have been the best time to do it if it had to happen I agree, maybe things came to a head after the best before date? Maloney seems like a smart gm, it's hard to say, maybe nothing is really wrong and Turris will sign tomorrow.

I agree and that was really my point all along. It's really hard to take a look at this situation and come to one conclusion or the other.

 

[bustaheims]

Whatever Maloney is going to do, he only has a little more than a month to decide. If Turris isn't signed by December 1st, he loses almost all his value until the trade deadline, because he won't be eligible to play until next season. He might regain some value to a bottom feeder looking to sell off players for picks and prospects at the deadline, but, unless the Yotes are in the playoff hunt at that point . . .

 

[Tigger]

Whatever Maloney is going to do, he only has a little more than a month to decide. If Turris isn't signed by December 1st, he loses almost all his value until the trade deadline, because he won't be eligible to play until next season. He might regain some value to a bottom feeder looking to sell off players for picks and prospects at the deadline, but, unless the Yotes are in the playoff hunt at that point . . .

That's a good point, Maloney is under some pressure there and if Turris was only so so on playing in Phoenix, why go through this? Sign something reasonable ( whatever that is ) and play. The longer it drags on the more I think there's some kind of hardline unless they're trying to play a game of chicken with Maloney over the date you noted and are hoping to max things out. It still seems weird to me to accept losing money in the hopes of making more when you have no leverage. I don't know much past Turris isn't playing, Maloney has said he won't trade him and Dec. 1 so I'm speculating/guessing in between.

 

[bustaheims]

Turris "clears" the air:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/7155852/kyle-turris-asks-phoenix-coyotes-trade

The standoff between Kyle Turris and the Phoenix Coyotes was taken up a notch Thursday.

Kurt Overhardt, the agent for the unsigned center, confirmed that Turris has asked the Coyotes for a trade.

"This has never been about money, we've been upfront with the club from Day 1," Overhardt told ESPN.com Thursday. "We've respectfully requested that the player had the opportunity to move forward in his career by having a fresh start."

 

[Kin]

Well, that makes sense at least. Still, some pretty harsh words there from Maloney.

 

[rdowdall]

Well, that makes sense at least. Still, some pretty harsh words there from Maloney.

Harsh in the sense that you think he is doing his team a disservice, or harsh in the sense that "Dude ain't goin' ta back down!!!"?

 

[Bates]

I am surprised more teams don't use the RFA better.  Why should a team give in to a player when at that stage of the career the team holds all the leverage?

 

[rdowdall]

I am surprised more teams don't use the RFA better.  Why should a team give in to a player when at that stage of the career the team holds all the leverage?

I think it depends on the situation.  At some point that RFA is going to be a UFA.  If you want to keep them around, you probably want to keep things civil. 

 

[Kin]

I am surprised more teams don't use the RFA better.  Why should a team give in to a player when at that stage of the career the team holds all the leverage?

I think this is one of those situations where a team really does have all of the leverage. In a situation like the one with Doughty and the Kings this summer Doughty did have a good dose of leverage because he was so important to their success on the ice. Turris doesn't have that so Maloney can afford to play hardball.

 

[Bates]

Yeah the Doughty was a unique one as he was so imp to team.  If you think of teams like leafs and Schenn is another example of team giving in to player.  Luke has not done enough in his time in league to deserve salary he has commanded.  There are many examples of big contracts given to RFA's which really don't make any sense if you want to control salary.

 

[Kin]

Yeah the Doughty was a unique one as he was so imp to team.  If you think of teams like leafs and Schenn is another example of team giving in to player.  Luke has not done enough in his time in league to deserve salary he has commanded.  There are many examples of big contracts given to RFA's which really don't make any sense if you want to control salary.

I think there's probably less than you think. I think most big deals given to RFA's are given to young players who've proven themselves and then you have a situation where the team is trying to buy out UFA years.

Schenn was kind of a good example of that. He got some UFA years bought and had some leverage in terms of his play.

 

[Fanatic]

Hypothetically, if he was to sit out all year, does that do anything to his eventual UFA status? Does it move it up a year?

 

[Bates]

That's the thing Nik I understand the need to buy UFA years from an elite player but buying them from a guy like Schenn makes no sense to me.  Almost every team has a Schenn in their organization and every draft has several of him.  This is the level of player where team should hold all the power yet some teams continue to give in and reward when they don't need to.  Bogosian is another good example from this summer, he really had no leverage yet got a decent contract.

 

[Bates]

And back to Turris, he has already got one contract based on potential, it's about time he get around to earning his next one because nothing he has done yet would lead to a multi-million dollar deal.

 

[Kin]

That's the thing Nik I understand the need to buy UFA years from an elite player but buying them from a guy like Schenn makes no sense to me.  Almost every team has a Schenn in their organization and every draft has several of him.  This is the level of player where team should hold all the power yet some teams continue to give in and reward when they don't need to. 

We'll just have to disagree about Schenn I guess. Both in terms of how he's played and his relative quality as an asset. He's 21, a top 5 pick and has had some success. I don't think every team has one of him or even several like you claim.

Bogosian is another good example from this summer, he really had no leverage yet got a decent contract.

Bogosian got two years at 2.5 per. That's hardly a case of bowing to unreasonable demands.

 

[Kin]

And back to Turris, he has already got one contract based on potential, it's about time he get around to earning his next one because nothing he has done yet would lead to a multi-million dollar deal.

I'm confused. Didn't his entry level deal just expire?

 

[Bates]

Turris's entry level deal is one he got for potential.  His second deal is one he should earn and he has not done that.  If he wasn't young and drafted high there would be zero offers for him.  Schenn is a 21 year old 2nd pairing d-man.  He has not proven to be a great 2nd pairing defenceman.  I believe every team will have this type of player and yes every draft there will be several picked.  While Luke was picked 5th in 08 it could be argued that he is actually the 7th or 8th best d-man drafted that year.