Nonis using depth to go shopping....

[Zee]

Ashton is guaranteed one of the guys gone, he brings absolutely nothing except a punch able face. One of McLaren/Orr would be nice to go too, I seriously doubt if they'd get rid of both goons.

That's severely undervaluing Ashton.

How many players who bring absolutely nothing get multiple breakaways?  How many 4th line Leafs have had breakaways in recent memory? 

He's just had bad luck offensively, it'll come eventually.  He's actually perfect right now for the 4th line - can hit, can cycle, can handle the puck, has shown offensive skill at other levels, including the AHL.

I'm not saying he's the next coming of Wayne Gretzky, but he certainly brings something to the table, and I'd argue it's something this team needs for its depth moving forward.  He's certainly farrrrrrr better than Orr/McLaren.

He stinks, I'm sure Burke would want him in Calgary.

 

[armche123]

Ashton is guaranteed one of the guys gone, he brings absolutely nothing except a punch able face. One of McLaren/Orr would be nice to go too, I seriously doubt if they'd get rid of both goons.

That's severely undervaluing Ashton.

How many players who bring absolutely nothing get multiple breakaways?  How many 4th line Leafs have had breakaways in recent memory? 

He's just had bad luck offensively, it'll come eventually.  He's actually perfect right now for the 4th line - can hit, can cycle, can handle the puck, has shown offensive skill at other levels, including the AHL.

I'm not saying he's the next coming of Wayne Gretzky, but he certainly brings something to the table, and I'd argue it's something this team needs for its depth moving forward.  He's certainly farrrrrrr better than Orr/McLaren.

He stinks, I'm sure Burke would want him in Calgary.

Burkie will take him, and then "make us regret it"...

 

[ZBBM]

Ashton is guaranteed one of the guys gone, he brings absolutely nothing except a punch able face. One of McLaren/Orr would be nice to go too, I seriously doubt if they'd get rid of both goons.

That's severely undervaluing Ashton.

How many players who bring absolutely nothing get multiple breakaways?  How many 4th line Leafs have had breakaways in recent memory? 

He's just had bad luck offensively, it'll come eventually.  He's actually perfect right now for the 4th line - can hit, can cycle, can handle the puck, has shown offensive skill at other levels, including the AHL.

I'm not saying he's the next coming of Wayne Gretzky, but he certainly brings something to the table, and I'd argue it's something this team needs for its depth moving forward.  He's certainly farrrrrrr better than Orr/McLaren.

Wait a minute.  Wasn't it in the last GDT that I left the pro-Ashton cabal in disarray?  Their collective egos a smoldering pile of ruins after being leveled by the force of my logic?  Their will to live extinguished in the crushing grip of the unanswerable statistical evidence I deployed?  In short, their clocks cleaned to a level of clock cleanliness never before seen in the annals of humankind?

That was my interp, anyhow.

 

[Andy007]

Ashton is guaranteed one of the guys gone, he brings absolutely nothing except a punch able face. One of McLaren/Orr would be nice to go too, I seriously doubt if they'd get rid of both goons.

That's severely undervaluing Ashton.

How many players who bring absolutely nothing get multiple breakaways?  How many 4th line Leafs have had breakaways in recent memory? 

He's just had bad luck offensively, it'll come eventually.  He's actually perfect right now for the 4th line - can hit, can cycle, can handle the puck, has shown offensive skill at other levels, including the AHL.

I'm not saying he's the next coming of Wayne Gretzky, but he certainly brings something to the table, and I'd argue it's something this team needs for its depth moving forward.  He's certainly farrrrrrr better than Orr/McLaren.

He stinks, I'm sure Burke would want him in Calgary.

What a ridiculous comment. Did the six minutes per game on a line that features one of the worst hockey "players" in the league help you reach that conclusion?  I bet you'd also be the first to complain about the Leafs trading a player like him after they thrive in another city.

 

[Zee]

Ashton is guaranteed one of the guys gone, he brings absolutely nothing except a punch able face. One of McLaren/Orr would be nice to go too, I seriously doubt if they'd get rid of both goons.

That's severely undervaluing Ashton.

How many players who bring absolutely nothing get multiple breakaways?  How many 4th line Leafs have had breakaways in recent memory? 

He's just had bad luck offensively, it'll come eventually.  He's actually perfect right now for the 4th line - can hit, can cycle, can handle the puck, has shown offensive skill at other levels, including the AHL.

I'm not saying he's the next coming of Wayne Gretzky, but he certainly brings something to the table, and I'd argue it's something this team needs for its depth moving forward.  He's certainly farrrrrrr better than Orr/McLaren.

He stinks, I'm sure Burke would want him in Calgary.

What a ridiculous comment. Did the six minutes per game on a line that features one of the worst hockey "players" in the league help you reach that conclusion?  I bet you'd also be the first to complain about the Leafs trading a player like him after they thrive in another city.

His 45 games without a goal aren't doing him any favours. We've already got a Leivo who has done more than Ashton, how many 4th liners does one team need?

 

[Andy007]

Ashton is guaranteed one of the guys gone, he brings absolutely nothing except a punch able face. One of McLaren/Orr would be nice to go too, I seriously doubt if they'd get rid of both goons.

That's severely undervaluing Ashton.

How many players who bring absolutely nothing get multiple breakaways?  How many 4th line Leafs have had breakaways in recent memory? 

He's just had bad luck offensively, it'll come eventually.  He's actually perfect right now for the 4th line - can hit, can cycle, can handle the puck, has shown offensive skill at other levels, including the AHL.

I'm not saying he's the next coming of Wayne Gretzky, but he certainly brings something to the table, and I'd argue it's something this team needs for its depth moving forward.  He's certainly farrrrrrr better than Orr/McLaren.

He stinks, I'm sure Burke would want him in Calgary.

What a ridiculous comment. Did the six minutes per game on a line that features one of the worst hockey "players" in the league help you reach that conclusion?  I bet you'd also be the first to complain about the Leafs trading a player like him after they thrive in another city.

His 45 games without a goal aren't doing him any favours. We've already got a Leivo who has done more than Ashton, how many 4th liners does one team need?

So in the 30 games he has played out of that monstrous 45 game sample size, he has an average ice time of 6:12. That's enough to convince you that this 22 yr old is a 4th liner and stinks?

Moreover, you can conclude that Leivo, a 20 yr old with 7 NHL games under his belt, is better than Ashton and also a 4th liner. Boy, move over Kreskin!

 

[losveratos]

Ashton is guaranteed one of the guys gone, he brings absolutely nothing except a punch able face. One of McLaren/Orr would be nice to go too, I seriously doubt if they'd get rid of both goons.

That's severely undervaluing Ashton.

How many players who bring absolutely nothing get multiple breakaways?  How many 4th line Leafs have had breakaways in recent memory? 

He's just had bad luck offensively, it'll come eventually.  He's actually perfect right now for the 4th line - can hit, can cycle, can handle the puck, has shown offensive skill at other levels, including the AHL.

I'm not saying he's the next coming of Wayne Gretzky, but he certainly brings something to the table, and I'd argue it's something this team needs for its depth moving forward.  He's certainly farrrrrrr better than Orr/McLaren.

He stinks, I'm sure Burke would want him in Calgary.

What a ridiculous comment. Did the six minutes per game on a line that features one of the worst hockey "players" in the league help you reach that conclusion?  I bet you'd also be the first to complain about the Leafs trading a player like him after they thrive in another city.

His 45 games without a goal aren't doing him any favours. We've already got a Leivo who has done more than Ashton, how many 4th liners does one team need?

So in the 30 games he has played out of that monstrous 45 game sample size, he has an average ice time of 6:12. That's enough to convince you that this 22 yr old is a 4th liner and stinks?

Moreover, you can conclude that Leivo, a 20 yr old with 7 NHL games under his belt, is better than Ashton and also a 4th liner. Boy, move over Kreskin!

He didn't say better. He said done more. And he's right.

A goal and an assist in 7 games. Vs 3 assists in 45 games.
Also Ashton was a -10 last year in only 15 games. How does one do that exactly?

 

[Zee]

I don't know where this Ashton love is coming from, but he's even less noticeable on the ice then our previous young up and comer Luca Caputi. If he's trending toward a career like that, what kind of player is he exactly?

 

[Andy007]

Ashton is guaranteed one of the guys gone, he brings absolutely nothing except a punch able face. One of McLaren/Orr would be nice to go too, I seriously doubt if they'd get rid of both goons.

That's severely undervaluing Ashton.

How many players who bring absolutely nothing get multiple breakaways?  How many 4th line Leafs have had breakaways in recent memory? 

He's just had bad luck offensively, it'll come eventually.  He's actually perfect right now for the 4th line - can hit, can cycle, can handle the puck, has shown offensive skill at other levels, including the AHL.

I'm not saying he's the next coming of Wayne Gretzky, but he certainly brings something to the table, and I'd argue it's something this team needs for its depth moving forward.  He's certainly farrrrrrr better than Orr/McLaren.

He stinks, I'm sure Burke would want him in Calgary.

What a ridiculous comment. Did the six minutes per game on a line that features one of the worst hockey "players" in the league help you reach that conclusion?  I bet you'd also be the first to complain about the Leafs trading a player like him after they thrive in another city.

His 45 games without a goal aren't doing him any favours. We've already got a Leivo who has done more than Ashton, how many 4th liners does one team need?

So in the 30 games he has played out of that monstrous 45 game sample size, he has an average ice time of 6:12. That's enough to convince you that this 22 yr old is a 4th liner and stinks?

Moreover, you can conclude that Leivo, a 20 yr old with 7 NHL games under his belt, is better than Ashton and also a 4th liner. Boy, move over Kreskin!

He didn't say better. He said done more. And he's right.

A goal and an assist in 7 games. Vs 3 assists in 45 games.
Also Ashton was a -10 last year in only 15 games. How does one do that exactly?

Not last year, two years ago, when he was 20.

I guess both of you guys have no idea what sample size means? Or black and white thinking?

Anyway Zee is saying that Leivo is better because he is insinuating that you don't need Ashton anymore because they have Leivo. And he is basing that on 7 games for Leivo and half a season for Ashton.

 

[Andy007]

I don't know where this Ashton love is coming from, but he's even less noticeable on the ice then our previous young up and comer Luca Caputi. If he's trending toward a career like that, what kind of player is he exactly?

Who is saying anything about loving Ashton? You know what some people are saying? They're saying that it might be prudent to wait until a player has had some actual time in the NHL playing actual minutes with actual linemates before you discard them at the age of 22. What crazy, out of the box thinking, huh??

 

[Zee]

I don't know where this Ashton love is coming from, but he's even less noticeable on the ice then our previous young up and comer Luca Caputi. If he's trending toward a career like that, what kind of player is he exactly?

Who is saying anything about loving Ashton? You know what some people are saying? They're saying that it might be prudent to wait until a player has had some actual time in the NHL playing actual minutes with actual linemates before you discard them at the age of 22. What crazy, out of the box thinking, huh??

This entire discussion came about while debating who the Leafs should trim to make room for guys like Bolland and Clarkson coming back.  I'm no fan of the goon brothers, so my 3 choices would be McLaren, Orr and Ashton.  Carter Ashton has done absolutely nothing to distinguish himself on the ice, or to be considered as a player who you would keep up.  It's the obvious choice for me to send him down before guys like Holland, Leivo, Smith or Bodie.  I see nothing in his game that warrants keeping him up.

 

[bustaheims]

Wait a minute.  Wasn't it in the last GDT that I left the pro-Ashton cabal in disarray?  Their collective egos a smoldering pile of ruins after being leveled by the force of my logic?  Their will to live extinguished in the crushing grip of the unanswerable statistical evidence I deployed?  In short, their clocks cleaned to a level of clock cleanliness never before seen in the annals of humankind?

That was my interp, anyhow.

Ummm, no?

 

[Zee]

Ashton is guaranteed one of the guys gone, he brings absolutely nothing except a punch able face. One of McLaren/Orr would be nice to go too, I seriously doubt if they'd get rid of both goons.

That's severely undervaluing Ashton.

How many players who bring absolutely nothing get multiple breakaways?  How many 4th line Leafs have had breakaways in recent memory? 

He's just had bad luck offensively, it'll come eventually.  He's actually perfect right now for the 4th line - can hit, can cycle, can handle the puck, has shown offensive skill at other levels, including the AHL.

I'm not saying he's the next coming of Wayne Gretzky, but he certainly brings something to the table, and I'd argue it's something this team needs for its depth moving forward.  He's certainly farrrrrrr better than Orr/McLaren.

Wait a minute.  Wasn't it in the last GDT that I left the pro-Ashton cabal in disarray?  Their collective egos a smoldering pile of ruins after being leveled by the force of my logic?  Their will to live extinguished in the crushing grip of the unanswerable statistical evidence I deployed?  In short, their clocks cleaned to a level of clock cleanliness never before seen in the annals of humankind?

That was my interp, anyhow.

It was the Fraser to Edmonton thread with Ashton on a list with Phillip Dupuis, which in of itself is never good.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm not trying to project any particular "love" for Ashton, I just don't think he's shown nothing because there's more to evaluating a player than goals and assists.  I think he's been much better than most of the 4th line players the Leafs have played the last few seasons, and that his lack of points is just bad luck right now and nothing to really worry about.  And the fact he's 22, cheap, and all the other attributes I said earlier.

I don't think he's great or anything, just fine for the 4th line role.  I think some points will come because he's getting chances, things I can't say for certain other 4th liners we've seen.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Most of the "Ashton love" stems from the fact that he's a better 4th line option than Orr right now, which I'm not sure anybody can disagree with.

If I had to rank the potential 4th line guys though D'Amigo and Bodie would both be ahead of Ashton.

 

[Frank E]

As long as he keeps his gloves on, he's fine on the fourth line.

But I wouldn't keep him over Holland or Smith.  Having said that, I haven't seen Holland or Smith on the wing on the fourth line to be certain.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Most of the "Ashton love" stems from the fact that he's a better 4th line option than Orr right now, which I'm not sure anybody can disagree with.

If I had to rank the potential 4th line guys though D'Amigo and Bodie would both be ahead of Ashton.

Yeah I'm a fan of having D'Amigo up.

 

[Frank E]

Most of the "Ashton love" stems from the fact that he's a better 4th line option than Orr right now, which I'm not sure anybody can disagree with.

If I had to rank the potential 4th line guys though D'Amigo and Bodie would both be ahead of Ashton.

Yeah I'm a fan of having D'Amigo up.

I actually find Ashton a better fit for the fourth line than D'Amigo...he's more physical, and I think his speed is almost as good as D'Amigo's.

 

[Andy007]

I like D'Amigo and Bodie as 4th line options. Ashton was scoring at a pretty torrid pace for the Marlies before the call up, I'd rather he just stay there and see if he can maintain that output.

 

[Zee]

I'm not trying to project any particular "love" for Ashton, I just don't think he's shown nothing because there's more to evaluating a player than goals and assists.  I think he's been much better than most of the 4th line players the Leafs have played the last few seasons, and that his lack of points is just bad luck right now and nothing to really worry about.  And the fact he's 22, cheap, and all the other attributes I said earlier.

I don't think he's great or anything, just fine for the 4th line role.  I think some points will come because he's getting chances, things I can't say for certain other 4th liners we've seen.

Besides Orr and McLaren who I've already agreed have no place on an NHL roster, who does Ashton replace on the list of Leafs players?