Official Armchair GM Thread 2014-2015 Leafs

[CarltonTheBear]

There's no way Detroit is moving Mantha.

 

[L K]

There's no way Detroit is moving Mantha.

At the same time, his rookie season in the AHL this year is somewhat unimpressive.  23 points in 45 games.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

There's no way Detroit is moving Mantha.

At the same time, his rookie season in the AHL this year is somewhat unimpressive.  23 points in 45 games.

This is Detroit we're talking about though, they probably don't expect him to be a NHLer until he's like 26. I don't think that they'll let his rookie season in the AHL change how they view him.

 

[Rebel_1812]

There's no way Detroit is moving Mantha.

At the same time, his rookie season in the AHL this year is somewhat unimpressive.  23 points in 45 games.

This is Detroit we're talking about though, they probably don't expect him to be a NHLer until he's like 26. I don't think that they'll let his rookie season in the AHL change how they view him.

Still wasn't that high of a price to pay to get a good defense men. 

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

So if they nuke things in the off-season, I was playing around with what a lineup might potentially look like.

Not factoring in any young players they will probablly get in return, for this I've decided that most of the trade returns will be picks and prospects that are not NHL ready.

JVR-Kadri-Panik
Komarov-Holland-Frattin
Leivo-Nylander-Brown
Sill-Carrick-Kozun

Reilly-Polak
Gardiner-Robidas
Percy-Erixon

Bernier or Reimer
Gibson

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I also wanted to mention hockeystreams.com again.

I know some have mentioned that a lineup like the above isn't one that would inspire you to renew center ice. Hockeystreams has every game, no blackout restrictions, every home and away team feed. It also had almost every CHL and AHL game too. It also covers all the international tournaments and stuff like trade deadline coverage.

I have no financial interest in the site, but it's a fraction of the cost of center ice, it can be viewed on all platforms and it has really kept me invested in the team being able to watch Marlies games and some of the  major games our prospects play.

I can't recommend it highly enough.

 

[AvroArrow]

JVR-Kadri-Panik
Komarov-Holland-Frattin
Leivo-Nylander-Brown
Sill-Carrick-Kozun

Reilly-Polak
Gardiner-Robidas
Percy-Erixon

Bernier or Reimer
Gibson

Frankly, I wouldn't keep JvR around either.  I like him and his contract is gold, but it won't be gold by the time we're contending again, so sell high for some key picks/prospects.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

JVR-Kadri-Panik
Komarov-Holland-Frattin
Leivo-Nylander-Brown
Sill-Carrick-Kozun

Reilly-Polak
Gardiner-Robidas
Percy-Erixon

Bernier or Reimer
Gibson

Frankly, I wouldn't keep JvR around either.  I like him and his contract is gold, but it won't be gold by the time we're contending again, so sell high for some key picks/prospects.

If the Leafs are able to move Kessel, Bozak, Phaneuf and Lupul (close to $25 million), they're going to be taking some crappy contracts back.  That being the case, I would prefer to keep guys like Nylander, Brown, Leivo and Carrick in the AHL for another season.  Another consideration, if the Leafs can move guys for picks and prospects, some of the longer-term Marlies may be forced to make the jump to make room.

Next year's lineup should be interesting once it's finally penciled in.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

JVR-Kadri-Panik
Komarov-Holland-Frattin
Leivo-Nylander-Brown
Sill-Carrick-Kozun

Reilly-Polak
Gardiner-Robidas
Percy-Erixon

Bernier or Reimer
Gibson

Frankly, I wouldn't keep JvR around either.  I like him and his contract is gold, but it won't be gold by the time we're contending again, so sell high for some key picks/prospects.

I thought of that, he's only a year older than Kadri and Gardiner, I think if you move him you probably have to move the other two.

I also think Edmonton has shown that you can't really have a complete blank slate and just add some great prospects, you have to have a decent framework to build around.

With that in mind, I think having guys who will be approaching their late twenties when the rebuild starts to bear fruit isn't a terrible idea.

 

[AvroArrow]

Frankly, I wouldn't keep JvR around either.  I like him and his contract is gold, but it won't be gold by the time we're contending again, so sell high for some key picks/prospects.

I thought of that, he's only a year older than Kadri and Gardiner, I think if you move him you probably have to move the other two.

I also think Edmonton has shown that you can't really have a complete blank slate and just add some great prospects, you have to have a decent framework to build around.

With that in mind, I think having guys who will be approaching their late twenties when the rebuild starts to bear fruit isn't a terrible idea.

I hear what you're saying, but I think the leafs can buy that in free agency.  The haul we could get from JvR would be worth it.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Frankly, I wouldn't keep JvR around either.  I like him and his contract is gold, but it won't be gold by the time we're contending again, so sell high for some key picks/prospects.

I thought of that, he's only a year older than Kadri and Gardiner, I think if you move him you probably have to move the other two.

I also think Edmonton has shown that you can't really have a complete blank slate and just add some great prospects, you have to have a decent framework to build around.

With that in mind, I think having guys who will be approaching their late twenties when the rebuild starts to bear fruit isn't a terrible idea.

I hear what you're saying, but I think the leafs can buy that in free agency.  The haul we could get from JvR would be worth it.

I agree that he'd fetch a handsome return, but I disagree that you can pickup those types of second tier glue guys in free agency. If you could Edmonton would have already.

You can pick up Clarkson, Winnick, Santorelli and the like in free agency to round out a lineup. You also overpay unless it's for spare parts.

I think you need the second tier guys like JVR, Kadri and Gardiner to already be in place though, either through the draft or via trade.

When you add blue chips like Nylander, Rielly and a few others to the mix I think that's when you start to build a winner.

 

[AvroArrow]

Frankly, I wouldn't keep JvR around either.  I like him and his contract is gold, but it won't be gold by the time we're contending again, so sell high for some key picks/prospects.

I thought of that, he's only a year older than Kadri and Gardiner, I think if you move him you probably have to move the other two.

I also think Edmonton has shown that you can't really have a complete blank slate and just add some great prospects, you have to have a decent framework to build around.

With that in mind, I think having guys who will be approaching their late twenties when the rebuild starts to bear fruit isn't a terrible idea.

I should also address Gardiner/Kadri comment.  Gardiner's value is too low to trade right now.  He should be held onto and played in such a way as to increase his value.  Kadri I'm less concerned about trading.  I don't think his value is JvR high, so its not as important to trade him, though it wouldn't bother me if he is traded.

 

[AvroArrow]

I agree that he'd fetch a handsome return, but I disagree that you can pickup those types of second tier glue guys in free agency. If you could Edmonton would have already.

You can pick up Clarkson, Winnick, Santorelli and the like in free agency to round out a lineup. You also overpay unless it's for spare parts.

I think you need the second tier guys like JVR, Kadri and Gardiner to already be in place though, either through the draft or via trade.

When you add blue chips like Nylander, Rielly and a few others to the mix I think that's when you start to build a winner.

The problem in Edmonton is that they don't have the money to throw around like the Leafs.

We could easily pick up a few good (not great) FA's at slightly overpaid values for 3-4 year deals to insulate any prospects/rookies who step in.

Or, go after a few not-quite-over-the-hill-but-still-old guys.  Examples: Beauchemin, Green, Franson, Ehroff, Ribeiro

And of course, go after more Winnik/Santorelli types.

Also, keep in mind, we still want to lose for a couple more years to legitimately build up quality prospects.

 

[AvroArrow]

Here's a sample of FA pieces that could be brought in to insulate/fill out the roster next year.

LW's:
Cole, Bergenheim, Glencross, Erat

C's:
Fleischmann, Fisher, Vermette, Peverley

RW's:
Stafford, Ryder, Williams

D's:
Green, Franson, Visnovsky, Meszaros, Ehrhoff, Beauchemin

G's:
Niemi, Fasth

 

[bustaheims]

Here's a sample of FA pieces that could be brought in to insulate/fill out the roster next year.

LW's:
Cole, Bergenheim, Glencross, Erat

C's:
Fleischmann, Fisher, Vermette, Peverley

RW's:
Stafford, Ryder, Williams

D's:
Green, Franson, Visnovsky, Meszaros, Ehrhoff, Beauchemin

G's:
Niemi, Fasth

Crossed out guys that will be either be in the market for big money, longer term deals or are probably on the verge of retirement this summer (in which case, they're not likely to sign with a team destined for the basement). These guys aren't exactly the type you bring in to insulate or fill out a roster. If you sign them, they're pieces you think will have long-term value - and those are not the type of pieces the Leafs should be looking for on the UFA market at the beginning of what will hopefully be a large scale rebuild.

 

[Chris]

My concern about JVR is similar to my concern about Kessel and Bozak...apparent lack of effort and results over the past 30-40 games. He's been as invisible as anyone for the most part. Not sure I want that as part of the team long term.

That said, the way things have spiraled out of control, it's tough to tell who is the primary source of the problem, and who has just been drawn into the vortex.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Here's a sample of FA pieces that could be brought in to insulate/fill out the roster next year.

LW's:
Cole, Bergenheim, Glencross, Erat

C's:
Fleischmann, Fisher, Vermette, Peverley

RW's:
Stafford, Ryder, Williams

D's:
Green, Franson, Visnovsky, Meszaros, Ehrhoff, Beauchemin

G's:
Niemi, Fasth

Crossed out guys that will be either be in the market for big money, longer term deals or are probably on the verge of retirement this summer (in which case, they're not likely to sign with a team destined for the basement). These guys aren't exactly the type you bring in to insulate or fill out a roster. If you sign them, they're pieces you think will have long-term value - and those are not the type of pieces the Leafs should be looking for on the UFA market at the beginning of what will hopefully be a large scale rebuild.

Honestly, I think the Leafs should avoid the FA rush.  See what's around after the dust settles and sign some guys to 1-2 year deals at or below market value.  They're probably going to want to evaluate on a year-to-year basis and not get locked into anything at this point.

 

[bustaheims]

Honestly, I think the Leafs should avoid the FA rush.  See what's around after the dust settles and sign some guys to 1-2 year deals at or below market value.  They're probably going to want to evaluate on a year-to-year basis and not get locked into anything at this point.

Exactly. The best strategy for the Leafs for the next couple summers is to go back to the Santorelli/Winnik types - guys who are looking to rebuild some value or who were overlooked in the opening salvos of free agency - and sign them to cheap, one year deals and move them out at the deadline. It's great for the Leafs, because they get assets for the future in return, and it's great for the players, because they get a very real opportunity to improve their stock for their next go round in the free agent market. Unless there's a clear gem out there (there isn't this summer, and there very rarely is), it's best to not make major splashes in the UFA market.

 

[Highlander]

Although there is no excuse for lack of effort, lets face it the team is in free fall. I think we knew when Shannaplan took over it would get worse before it got better.  I truly believe with Dubois and Hunter in our front office with the other changes we have made, that the rebuild has started already. We have some great draft picks this year, and hopefully add two or three future pieces to the puzzle. Regarding JVR and Kessel, I think you have to let them reset themselves under the new coach whom will take over and set this ship on a new course.  You just can't get rid of every single player, it doesnt make sense in the least. Of course in a years time if JVR and Kessel are not in total production mode then trade them.
In the meantime I hope Nonis is setting up a new home for Phaneuf, Bozak, Lupul (whom I like a lot) and Bernier (whom I restate is not our future) for the summer.

 

[AvroArrow]

Honestly, I think the Leafs should avoid the FA rush.  See what's around after the dust settles and sign some guys to 1-2 year deals at or below market value.  They're probably going to want to evaluate on a year-to-year basis and not get locked into anything at this point.

Exactly. The best strategy for the Leafs for the next couple summers is to go back to the Santorelli/Winnik types - guys who are looking to rebuild some value or who were overlooked in the opening salvos of free agency - and sign them to cheap, one year deals and move them out at the deadline. It's great for the Leafs, because they get assets for the future in return, and it's great for the players, because they get a very real opportunity to improve their stock for their next go round in the free agent market. Unless there's a clear gem out there (there isn't this summer, and there very rarely is), it's best to not make major splashes in the UFA market.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating loading up on free agents and spending tons of money.  Just pointing out that we can very easily trade a guy like JvR or Kadri and "replace" him on the roster with a FA.