Phileas Fogg
New member
herman said:
It'll be fun to see the scoresheet/hear the call when two assist on the third's goal.
Official Ottawa Senators Thread
- Thread starter Madferret
- Start date
It'll be fun to see the scoresheet/hear the call when two assist on the third's goal.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
Nik the Trik said:
Probably part of the handshake deal. "I'll trade him to you as long as you promise to stick up for me against all the media bullies"
Zee said:
It's gonna be so funny when they trade them Mark Stone too.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Active member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Well, not that I have anything personal against MadFerret, but most of those fans of other teams just came around when their teams were good to troll us in a passive aggressive manner. Some more aggressively than passively.
Zee
Active member
Guru Tugginmypuddah said:
I was always suspicious about madferret and the other guys that were either Sens or Habs fans. Funny they're not around any longer.
I get the schadenfreude of watching your rivals suffer, but we're on a Leafs board, and when we take pleasure in their pain we're not directly attacking Sens/Habs fans on here. If I was a member of a Sens or Habs internet forum, I wouldn't be pretending to be un-biased. I would passively aggressively troll them, which is what I think those guys were doing. That's why I wouldn't belong to other hockey boards, the temptation to troll would be too high. I'd rather just share in the joy and misery with other Leafs fans, at least we all have common ground here.
Kin
New member
Two stray thoughts re: Karlsson
1. I'm really interested to see what happens with Mark Stone now. He's played his entire career with maybe the single best set-up guy in the world. Now, in his walk year, he's playing in what looks like a much worse situation. If he goes out and has, like, 19 goals and 45 points then it's going to be interesting to see how much the Karlsson trade will cost him as a UFA.
2. The Karlsson trade should probably be exhibit A in a cautionary tale for anyone who thinks the Leafs can trade their way into a much better defense. Karlsson was a superstar that some teams very clearly wanted desperately and yet by most accounts what held up his trade was that teams weren't even willing to throw in their best defensive prospects for him, to say nothing of their best young defensemen.
1. I'm really interested to see what happens with Mark Stone now. He's played his entire career with maybe the single best set-up guy in the world. Now, in his walk year, he's playing in what looks like a much worse situation. If he goes out and has, like, 19 goals and 45 points then it's going to be interesting to see how much the Karlsson trade will cost him as a UFA.
2. The Karlsson trade should probably be exhibit A in a cautionary tale for anyone who thinks the Leafs can trade their way into a much better defense. Karlsson was a superstar that some teams very clearly wanted desperately and yet by most accounts what held up his trade was that teams weren't even willing to throw in their best defensive prospects for him, to say nothing of their best young defensemen.
Phileas Fogg
New member
Nik the Trik said:
Well, to be fair, offers were reportedly far more lucrative at the trade deadline, and there was the little matter of Karlsson substantially limiting the destinations. I'd say it's equally a cautionary tale in how mismanagement and timing can alter the market.
Kin
New member
Frycer14 said:
We may have read different reports. I've heard things were a little better at the deadline or arguably better but not massively so.
I mean, not to put too fine a point on it but the reason Edmonton would be so willing to make a huge offer on Karlsson is because they already tried to move an incredibly valuable young forward for defense help and the best they could do was Adam Larsson.
Phileas Fogg
New member
Nik the Trik said:
Right, but the fact remains that they and probably 10 other teams, possibly the leafs included, would have likely made a substantially more competitive offer. And Ottawa probably felt they couldn't go into the season with this hanging over their heads with all the drama regarding the deteriorated relationship with ownership, not to mention whatshisname they sent packing and ended up in Florida, and a combination of other reasons why this situation was pretty uncharacteristic of the value one would get for Karlsson.
So I'm not sure if this really meets the average condition of most trades, even high end ones, that make your point.
Kin
New member
Frycer14 said:
Well, I mean for starters, that's not a fact. That's a supposition. Even on the board here opinion was pretty split about whether or not the Leafs should include any particularly high end assets in a potential Karlsson deal.
And I don't think you can just write off that the only reason you're saying that about Edmonton is because they're so desperate for the very thing I'm saying it's hard to trade for. If I was wrong, and it wasn't so hard to trade for, Edmonton wouldn't be so desperate for it.
Because the issue here isn't so much what Ottawa got, it's what teams were willing to give up. It's easy to say Edmonton would have been willing to give up a top flight young defenseman or defensive prospect but when they don't have either of those things it's kind of a meaningless statement.
Frycer14 said:
Any trade where high level assets are moved aren't going to fit the average condition of most trades. You can say that the circumstances around Karlsson's availability lowered what Ottawa was ultimately able to command but I can easily just as say that it's those circumstances that are the only reason Karlsson was available in the first place. I think it's very rare that any team is going to be inclined to move a high level player unless they are effectively forced to the way Ottawa was here.
But even still I feel like this is missing the larger point. Dallas clearly wanted Karlsson, Dallas clearly had a need for Karlsson, Dallas clearly knew that other Western Conference teams were in on Karlsson and they might have deal with the reality of facing him come playoff time. All of those factors, to me, seem more significant than just the raw number of teams that may have been bidding.
But despite that, Dallas didn't budge on including their best defensive prospect. Not even their best young defenseman, but a defensive prospect. Pile that on top of the mass of examples we have about how rare it is for really good young defensemen to be moved even when a guy like Hall is available to anyone and I think we're on some pretty firm ground when we say it's an unlikely strategy.