Opening Forward Lines

[herman]

Maple Leafs in the abyss between contender and pretender, TSN

Obvious chart makes the obvious more obvious.

 

[2badknees]

Maple Leafs in the abyss between contender and pretender, TSN

Obvious chart makes the obvious more obvious.

Ouch. It was certainly obvious for a long time that this line  without the puck is playing shorthanded when saddled with kessel, but the silver lining is that it looks worse as a relative stat due to the improvement in possession for the other three lines.

I truly hope Shanahan will have the stones to trade components of that first line, because I don't believe restructuring the lines is going to do much more than shuffle deck chairs.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

when saddled with kessel,

What makes you say it's Kessel and not Bozak?  C have much more responsibility in their own end than wingers, so it stands to reason that issues could stem from a C who isn't good enough in their own end.

 

[freer]

when saddled with kessel,

What makes you say it's Kessel and not Bozak?  C have much more responsibility in their own end than wingers, so it stands to reason that issues could stem from a C who isn't good enough in their own end.

It is the centers responsibility to play against the opposing center and help the defense get the puck out of the zone. Winger arent suppose to leave the zone until the puck leaves. Kessel has a tendency to be up at the opposing team zone

 

[Tigger]

when saddled with kessel,

What makes you say it's Kessel and not Bozak?  C have much more responsibility in their own end than wingers, so it stands to reason that issues could stem from a C who isn't good enough in their own end.

It's probably both but Kessel is a defensive suck hole, the number of times he waves at plays and doesn't take his man is just embarrassing. He's been playing hurt so it's been more noticeable recently, still.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

when saddled with kessel,

What makes you say it's Kessel and not Bozak?  C have much more responsibility in their own end than wingers, so it stands to reason that issues could stem from a C who isn't good enough in their own end.

It's probably both but Kessel is a defensive suck hole, the number of times he waves at plays and doesn't take his man is just embarrassing.

Similar things can be said of Bozak.

 

[Tigger]

when saddled with kessel,

What makes you say it's Kessel and not Bozak?  C have much more responsibility in their own end than wingers, so it stands to reason that issues could stem from a C who isn't good enough in their own end.

It's probably both but Kessel is a defensive suck hole, the number of times he waves at plays and doesn't take his man is just embarrassing.

Similar things can be said of Bozak.

Like I said.

 

[2badknees]

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/551789105521381376

"NHL players who have been outshot the most since Dec. 1: 1. Phil Kessel 2. JVR 3. Nikita Zadorov 4. Phaneuf 5. Bozak"

That's the top differential in the entire league. Wow. Pretty much says it all. And from Feschuk in the Star today, Kessel recently went to Carlyle requesting more icetime.

Hey - my 1000th and last post (self imposed cap on all forums I post in before moving on). Its been fun!

 

[LuncheonMeat]

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/551789105521381376

"NHL players who have been outshot the most since Dec. 1: 1. Phil Kessel 2. JVR 3. Nikita Zadorov 4. Phaneuf 5. Bozak"

That's the top differential in the entire league. Wow. Pretty much says it all. And from Feschuk in the Star today, Kessel recently went to Carlyle requesting more icetime.

Hey - my 1000th and last post (self imposed cap on all forums I post in before moving on). Its been fun!

And Carlyle continues to run with Kessel, JVR and Bozak as his top line.  :-\

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/551789105521381376

"NHL players who have been outshot the most since Dec. 1: 1. Phil Kessel 2. JVR 3. Nikita Zadorov 4. Phaneuf 5. Bozak"

That's the top differential in the entire league. Wow. Pretty much says it all. And from Feschuk in the Star today, Kessel recently went to Carlyle requesting more icetime.

Hey - my 1000th and last post (self imposed cap on all forums I post in before moving on). Its been fun!

Please stay, the place won't be the same without you.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

MLHS's take on Santorelli playing centre:

[quote author=http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/01/05/leafs-notebook-january-5/]One factor not discussed enough with Mike Santorelli: When he started the season, it was his first NHL action since January 2014 due to shoulder surgery. With that in mind, he was always destined to be at least a little behind some of the other players who ended the season relatively healthy. Coming to Toronto, Santorelli was a center, and the Komarov-Santorelli-Clarkson line was considered by some the Leafs? best trio to start the year. When the line got split up and he played with Kadri, it was announced by Carlyle that he is better as a winger right at the time when he began swinging into form due to games played while also playing with a player better than anyone else he had played with to that point (Kadri). In Vancouver, his worse possession numbers were with Ryan Kesler of all people; granted, they took the tough match-ups together, but that is a little telling. The career center plays a game that relies on speed, puck management, and hustle, all things a strong center needs. He struggled at the faceoff circle to start the year and is at 47% on the year, but he is a career 51.6% faceoff man, so it?s more likely that was due to rust more than anything else.

Santorelli is fourth on the team in points, by the way.[/quote]

I've said this before, but I really can't believe that Santo hasn't been moved back to centre with Kadri and Holland out. Just seems like such an obvious move, instead we're playing Smith 18 minutes.

I'd even consider moving Santorelli back to centre full-time. He's been really good with Kadri on the 2nd line, but Holland just doesn't seem to be working as the 3C right now. I think it's partially because he's playing with guys like Clarkson/Winnik/Komarov and they don't really suit his style of play. Santorelli would form a good checking line that could maybe chip in some points with those guys like he did at the start of the season. Move Holland to the wing with Kadri when they return and see if that gets him going a bit.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

MLHS's take on Santorelli playing centre:

[quote author=http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/01/05/leafs-notebook-january-5/]One factor not discussed enough with Mike Santorelli: When he started the season, it was his first NHL action since January 2014 due to shoulder surgery. With that in mind, he was always destined to be at least a little behind some of the other players who ended the season relatively healthy. Coming to Toronto, Santorelli was a center, and the Komarov-Santorelli-Clarkson line was considered by some the Leafs? best trio to start the year. When the line got split up and he played with Kadri, it was announced by Carlyle that he is better as a winger right at the time when he began swinging into form due to games played while also playing with a player better than anyone else he had played with to that point (Kadri). In Vancouver, his worse possession numbers were with Ryan Kesler of all people; granted, they took the tough match-ups together, but that is a little telling. The career center plays a game that relies on speed, puck management, and hustle, all things a strong center needs. He struggled at the faceoff circle to start the year and is at 47% on the year, but he is a career 51.6% faceoff man, so it?s more likely that was due to rust more than anything else.

Santorelli is fourth on the team in points, by the way.

I've said this before, but I really can't believe that Santo hasn't been moved back to centre with Kadri and Holland out. Just seems like such an obvious move, instead we're playing Smith 18 minutes.

I'd even consider moving Santorelli back to centre full-time. He's been really good with Kadri on the 2nd line, but Holland just doesn't seem to be working as the 3C right now. I think it's partially because he's playing with guys like Clarkson/Winnik/Komarov and they don't really suit his style of play. Santorelli would form a good checking line that could maybe chip in some points with those guys like he did at the start of the season. Move Holland to the wing with Kadri when they return and see if that gets him going a bit.
[/quote]

Reason 20456 why Randy Carlyle should be fired.

 

[Rebel_1812]

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/551789105521381376

"NHL players who have been outshot the most since Dec. 1: 1. Phil Kessel 2. JVR 3. Nikita Zadorov 4. Phaneuf 5. Bozak"

That's the top differential in the entire league. Wow. Pretty much says it all. And from Feschuk in the Star today, Kessel recently went to Carlyle requesting more icetime.

Hey - my 1000th and last post (self imposed cap on all forums I post in before moving on). Its been fun!

And Carlyle continues to run with Kessel, JVR and Bozak as his top line.  :-\

What choice does he have?  Healthy scratch the best offensive and highest paid players?

 

[herman]

Here's an article that really resonates with me, about defenestrating the line numbering system, rolling 4 lines with roles, and taking advantage of teams that are slow on the uptake still running a traditional 4th line of low-minute grinders.

Although significantly younger, a fourth line that features skilled players versus grinders creates a tough match up for other teams who ice a traditional, gritty bottom three.

It may seem counter-productive to give limited ice-time to a young line comprised of skilled players instead of having those players play more minutes in the AHL. A team can choose to break in skilled players in a position where the expectation to score isn't there. If young players are able to break into the NHL in a role that doesn't place much pressure on their shoulders to produce offence and instead simply requires outplaying bad players, the young players are put in a position to succeed.

Playing skilled players on lower lines is not a new idea. In 2008-09 when the Pittsburgh Penguins won the Stanley Cup they played notable skilled players Miroslav Satan and Petr Sykora on their bottom trio. Though both players were not able to keep up in the top-nine, they were perfect in a role where they were required to play on the fourth line: low minutes against low-end skill. Creating the mismatch allowed the Pittsburgh Penguins to win with middling possession numbers against a superior Detroit Red Wings team.

 

[bustaheims]

jonasTSN1050: Leafs shuffle lines again today: Winnik-Bozak-Kessel. van Riemsdyk-Kadri-Panik. Komarov-Santorelli-Clarkson. Booth-Carrick/Smith-Bodie.

Bozak back with Kessel. Santorelli centring the 3rd line. Horachek mixing some things up and keeping some familiar.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

jonasTSN1050: Leafs shuffle lines again today: Winnik-Bozak-Kessel. van Riemsdyk-Kadri-Panik. Komarov-Santorelli-Clarkson. Booth-Carrick/Smith-Bodie.

Bozak back with Kessel. Santorelli centring the 3rd line. Horachek mixing some things up and keeping some familiar.

We'll probably see a bunch of different combinations in the next few weeks. I've been on the Santorelli at 3C train for awhile now so glad to see that. And at least Kadri has two offensive wingers at his disposal.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Also, it's surprising to see last nights 2nd best Leaf demoted in the line-up 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Hopefully last night's lines continue and Kadri stays on the top line.  I'd like to see him there the remainder of the season.  If anyone is interested, have a read through the recent timeline of https://twitter.com/SteveBurtch to see how favourably Kadri compares with other C (such as Matt Duchene for example) in his even-strength production.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

We've got a week of no-games, let's talk about what the lines might look like when action returns. Hopefully Lupul, Holland, and Komarov are all back by then.

JVR-Kadri-Kessel
Lupul-Bozak-Santorelli
Komarov-Holland-Clarkson
Booth-Winnik-Panik

Horachek's talked about wanting to keep that standard top line apart, so hopefully he sticks to that for more than a game or two. He reverted back to Bozak-Kessel pretty quickly when he first put Kadri up there.

I think Winnik gets placed in the 4C spot. He's played there a little bit before. It basically comes down to whether they want Winnik-Smith-Panik or Booth-Winnik-Panik. I haven't exactly been crazy about Booth, but I'd rather see him or Frattin in the line-up over Smith.

Obviously, I'd like to see Panik in that 3RW spot, but I'm sure Clarkson still has that locked down, especially since he played a good game for once.

 

[pmrules]

We've got a week of no-games, let's talk about what the lines might look like when action returns. Hopefully Lupul, Holland, and Komarov are all back by then.

JVR-Kadri-Kessel
Lupul-Bozak-Santorelli
Komarov-Holland-Clarkson
Booth-Winnik-Panik

Horachek's talked about wanting to keep that standard top line apart, so hopefully he sticks to that for more than a game or two. He reverted back to Bozak-Kessel pretty quickly when he first put Kadri up there.

I think Winnik gets placed in the 4C spot. He's played there a little bit before. It basically comes down to whether they want Winnik-Smith-Panik or Booth-Winnik-Panik. I haven't exactly been crazy about Booth, but I'd rather see him or Frattin in the line-up over Smith.

Obviously, I'd like to see Panik in that 3RW spot, but I'm sure Clarkson still has that locked down, especially since he played a good game for once.

How about switching Lupul and JVR for a bit more balance?  Spread your 2 goal scorers over the 2 lines.

That keeps Kadri/Lupul together and keeps JVR/Bozak together.