Opening Forward Lines

[bustaheims]

Just a question with Booth starting on IR, does this help the CAP? Thanks all

Players have to be on the IR for at least 10 regular season games or 24 days (from opening night) to qualify for LTIR and provide teams with the ability to temporarily exceed the cap. Booth's injury puts him right on the borderline of qualifying there, depending on how fast he recovers. Either way, any cap relief his injury may provide will be temporary.

 

[freer]

Just a question with Booth starting on IR, does this help the CAP? Thanks all

Players have to be on the IR for at least 10 regular season games or 24 days (from opening night) to qualify for LTIR and provide teams with the ability to temporarily exceed the cap. Booth's injury puts him right on the borderline of qualifying there, depending on how fast he recovers. Either way, any cap relief his injury may provide will be temporary.

thanks for the info.

 

[bustaheims]

markhmasters: Antoine Bibeau assigned to Marlies; goalie turned heads during camp stint ? Leafs now down to 29 players

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

@Michael_Traikos 

Carlyle on Orr: "Intimidation is involved in sports ? . We don?t feel that our players should have to worry about any of those issues.

The guy fought 6 times, twice on opening night and not once after January (where he got beat).  Has concussion history.  Seriously, who is going to be intimidated by Orr being on the bench?

 

[bustaheims]

@Michael_Traikos 

Carlyle on Orr: "Intimidation is involved in sports ? . We don?t feel that our players should have to worry about any of those issues.

The guy fought 6 times, twice on opening night and not once after January (where he got beat).  Has concussion history.  Seriously, who is going to be intimidated by Orr being on the bench?

Also, people who looked into is show that A) there's no evidence to show that that kind of intimidation provides anything and B) the numbers show there's no real difference in terms of frequency or severity of injuries to players when there aren't face punchers in the lineup. This just more "stuck in the past and getting left behind" thinking.

 

[Bullfrog]

With Bodie out, I would have to agree.

I just can't believe they're keeping Orr/McLaren over Bodie.

Yeah. I mean, I would have been quite happy having none of them on the roster, but, if there's going to be one of them, it should be Bodie. He's at least a capable hockey player. The other two are not.

Bodie had 10 points and 50 shots on goal in 47 games last year. His cap hit is 600k (McLaren 700k, Orr 925k.)

This makes zero sense to me.

 

[Britishbulldog]

With Bodie out, I would have to agree.

I just can't believe they're keeping Orr/McLaren over Bodie.

Yeah. I mean, I would have been quite happy having none of them on the roster, but, if there's going to be one of them, it should be Bodie. He's at least a capable hockey player. The other two are not.

It is definitely based on fighting skill alone as which Bodie does NOT have to go with his size. 

McLaren is only a slightly better fighter but has a noticeably worse hockey IQ, slower skating and non-existent hockey skills. 

Orr is the toughest fighter but is the worst hockey player of the 3 by far... which is saying something.

Since everyone loses fights I would prefer to have Bodie's speed, hockey sense and better skill on the Leafs 4th line.  Like you guys, I don't understand cutting Bodie over McLaren and Orr.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

With Bodie out, I would have to agree.

I just can't believe they're keeping Orr/McLaren over Bodie.

Yeah. I mean, I would have been quite happy having none of them on the roster, but, if there's going to be one of them, it should be Bodie. He's at least a capable hockey player. The other two are not.

It is definitely based on fighting skill alone as which Bodie does NOT have to go with his size. 

McLaren is only a slightly better fighter but has a noticeably worse hockey IQ, slower skating and non-existent hockey skills. 

Orr is the toughest fighter but is the worst hockey player of the 3 by far... which is saying something.

Since everyone loses fights I would prefer to have Bodie's speed, hockey sense and better skill on the Leafs 4th line.  Like you guys, I don't understand cutting Bodie over McLaren and Orr.

Fighting is quite literally Orr's only 'skill.'  So the only thing he provides to the lineup is something that is diminishing league-wide.

 

[slapshot]

Didn't I hear Carlyle talking about "team toughness" being willing to block a shot or take a hit, not necessarily fighting.
If Orr is stuck on the fourth line again, that's going to mean dreadful minutes for a least two teammates, though Winnick will get time on the PK. It will also like mean no production from the 4th line again. I thought we were getting away from all that non-sense.

I was disappointed to see Carrick cut, but glad Leivo and Kozoun are sticking around. The three of them have outperformed all the other off-season acquisition, except maybe Komarov, who I like anyway.

Disappointed with Frattin especially. I have always been a fan, think he's got the tools, but is definitely lacking in intensity out there. Just seems way too tentative.

I also agree with pretty much everyone, that Bodie bring more overall game than either Orr or McLaren. Has some speed, forechecks hard and creates the odd chance. Will stand up as well when need be. Sort of like a lesser version of David Clarkson, though not based on last year.

 

[Joe S.]

I don't like Carlyle.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

With Bodie out, I would have to agree.

I just can't believe they're keeping Orr/McLaren over Bodie.

Yeah. I mean, I would have been quite happy having none of them on the roster, but, if there's going to be one of them, it should be Bodie. He's at least a capable hockey player. The other two are not.

Bodie had 10 points and 50 shots on goal in 47 games last year. His cap hit is 600k (McLaren 700k, Orr 925k.)

This makes zero sense to me.

This happened to me a couple of years ago. Once I remembered it was the Leafs I was talking about, the confusion lifted almost immediately.  8)

 

[Kessel Run]

Didn't I hear Carlyle talking about "team toughness" being willing to block a shot or take a hit, not necessarily fighting.
If Orr is stuck on the fourth line again, that's going to mean dreadful minutes for a least two teammates, though Winnick will get time on the PK. It will also like mean no production from the 4th line again. I thought we were getting away from all that non-sense.

Got to agree with this. How effective is a 4th line going to be when they are constantly handicapped?

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I don't like Carlyle.

Welcome to the club, I suspect he will be gone by Christmas.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

If we finish last under Carlyle, and draft McDavid, will Carlyle earn a spot on Legends' Row?  Just trying to think of best-case scenarios.

 

[Kin]

Since everyone loses fights I would prefer to have Bodie's speed, hockey sense and better skill on the Leafs 4th line.  Like you guys, I don't understand cutting Bodie over McLaren and Orr.

Except that would never be the logic ever used. If you think fighting matters, and that having a fighter in your line-up is necessary, then how good a player is at fighting will be an issue. If winning fights didn't matter then you wouldn't take any of the three.

I mean, I don't agree with the idea that having a face-puncher is a line-up requirement but there's at least an internal logic to it. Having a roster spot for a dedicated face-punchee seems entirely pointless.

 

[pnjunction]

Didn't I hear Carlyle talking about "team toughness" being willing to block a shot or take a hit, not necessarily fighting.
If Orr is stuck on the fourth line again, that's going to mean dreadful minutes for a least two teammates, though Winnick will get time on the PK. It will also like mean no production from the 4th line again. I thought we were getting away from all that non-sense.

I'm thinking you know what might make a team play soft by those metrics?  Rolling only 3 lines and always being more fatigued than the opposing top 3 lines the end of the game.  Hard to see how Leafs top 9 guys are supposed to find consistency in outdoing the opposition at shot blocking, corner battles, hitting etc. especially near the end of games if they consistently log more minutes.

 

[Kin]

I'm thinking you know what might make a team play soft by those metrics?  Rolling only 3 lines and always being more fatigued than the opposing top 3 lines the end of the game.  Hard to see how Leafs top 9 guys are supposed to find consistency in outdoing the opposition at shot blocking, corner battles, hitting etc. especially near the end of games if they consistently log more minutes.

That seems unlikely to make a huge impact on a team though. The difference between the teams who will use their fourth line the most and the teams that will use their fourth line the least will be, at most, three or four minutes a night.

If a team plays their fourth line only 6 minutes a night and the other three lines play 20, 18 and 16 respectively then you're not asking anyone to play an amount of hockey that's outside of normal parameters. Provided everyone's in shape, and you don't think that what separates first and third liners is fitness levels, I don't know that I'd buy that as a reason for consistently poor play.

 

[Strangelove]

Same unlikeable players, same self-righteously idiotic coach.

I get that there's only so much you can do with your line-up some offseasons (there isn't always prime, upper-tier talent available like David Clarkson), but what in the hell is Randy still doing here? It's astonishing.

 

[Joe S.]

Does anyone watch that series of videos on youtube called 'everything wrong with' <insert movie title>?

I keep imagining a leafs version and I can hear the narrator saying 'and the leafs gave Carlyle an extension because... reasons'

 

[Crucialness Key]

My gut tells me the starting 4th line will be Winnick-Santorelli-Orr.  Winnick & Santo will do mostly PK duty while Orr sits around and maybe loses 1 fight.  yaaaaaaaay