Random rumours

[GhostofPotvin29]

Who floated the $4 mil number?

I think it's just an assumption based on the market.

If that's the number Dreger is quoting then it might have some merit given his ties to Nonis/Nonis trying to use the media in negotiations.

I'm not crazy about Franson's foot speed, but I'd love if they could get him signed to a similar deal to Liles or force him down the Subban route, take a lower term one year deal and go out next year and prove the shortened season wasn't a fluke and he gets PAID the following season.

That's what I would hope happens too. I'm not really expecting that production to continue but I'd like them to keep him regardless.

 

[Zee]

Who floated the $4 mil number?

I think it's just an assumption based on the market.

If that's the number Dreger is quoting then it might have some merit given his ties to Nonis/Nonis trying to use the media in negotiations.

I'm not crazy about Franson's foot speed, but I'd love if they could get him signed to a similar deal to Liles or force him down the Subban route, take a lower term one year deal and go out next year and prove the shortened season wasn't a fluke and he gets PAID the following season.

Subban sat out and settled for a two year deal at lower money, I see no reason to give in to Franson here. Let him sit if it comes to that. Cap problem solved.

 

[Redleaf]

Of course, we dont know what is in Nonis brain and I wont try to speculate because he has done a bunch of things that I vehemently disagree with.  But ignoring that, it could be the case that literally, the buyouts and cap space do make the difference *this year* between keeping all the guys you want going forward at prices you think are reasonable going forward.  Everyone predicts the cap will rise dramatically soon.  eg, franson tight this year but sensible in the following years.

But I think regardless of what some people might want to attribute to whatever it is or isn't in Nonis' brain we still have to acknowledge that where they are is by design as opposed to an accident. If Nonis put himself in a position where he's unable to sign Franson at what he wants I don't think that can be said to have snuck up on him. In signing guys like Orr and Ranger and to some extent Clarkson I think Nonis would have had to have budgeted what he'd be willing/able to pay Franson this year. While you're right, if the Leafs didn't have the buyouts on their books it'd be easier to do it I still think you have to say that if Nonis can't pay Franson what he wants this year then it's a pretty good sign that keeping Franson was pretty low on the list of priorities.

Pretty much agree with this. But I do think Franson will stay. If I'm looking through the same set of glasses as Nonis was this past season, I'm keeping him at least another year. You can't let a player who showed so much improvement last season go without finding out if he's breaking out in a big way. You also can't give him a multi year $4 million contract either. Give him 1 year at 2.5m and let him prove he deserves the big payday next year when theres more cap room to play with.

 

[pnjunction]

How many RFA seasons does Franson have left after next season?  Looks like 1?

I could see the logic in a 1-year deal then.  There is risk on both sides (he could be really good and command $5M, or he could stink and go back to $1-2M) but I have a feeling it's a harder sell for the player who might be paranoid about getting injured or something and losing their chance at a big contract.

Unfortunately the team is in a bind because we don't want to break the bank on a 4-5 year contract because of 1.5 good seasons (and we can't afford it), and a 2-year deal means he is on the UFA market ASAP.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

If Nonis shops Liles for future considerations and offers to retain 1.5 to 1.8 of his salary, do we get any takers and is it enough to get Franson and Kadri signed?

Would it be better to flat out buy Liles out?

Of course this assumes Nonis decision not to extend Cody is purely a cap reason.

 

[pnjunction]

Well here's Liles contract:

2013-14: $3,875,000
2014-15: $3,875,000
2015-16: $3,875,000

And here's his buyout if we do it now:

2013-14: $875,000
2014-15: $875,000
2015-16: $2,375,000
2016-17: $1,250,000
2017-18: $1,250,000
2018-19: $1,250,000

The buyout definitely solves our problems now but man that 6-year duration and the 2016-17 hit.

Retaining ~1.5 in salary for 3 years definitely looks less painful than that, sadly it is worse than the buyout in the next 2 years when the cap will be the lowest.

Man what an awful deal, just like Grabovski if he weren't so overpaid he could be moved.  For a guy that talked toughness Burke sure liked to splash money at small soft players.

 

[Corn Flake]

Man what an awful deal, just like Grabovski if he weren't so overpaid he could be moved.

He really isn't that badly overpaid, relative to what other 2nd pairing d-men are going for.

 

[Corn Flake]

Of course this assumes Nonis decision not to extend Cody is purely a cap reason.

I don't really think that is solely the case.  My guess is Franson is asking for crazy money, relative to what he is worth.  Obviously there is a number that he fits within the cap structure but I'd be surprised if Nonis was just going to move the guy because he can't fit him in.

 

[pnjunction]

Man what an awful deal, just like Grabovski if he weren't so overpaid he could be moved.

He really isn't that badly overpaid, relative to what other 2nd pairing d-men are going for.

So is our defense corps that good that a legit 2nd pairing guy can barely crack the lineup?  I think we do have quite a bit of depth in skill back there but they're not that amazing.

If he isn't overpaid why hasn't he been moved already?  I suppose one could say that there isn't any rush and be optimistic that Nonis is in the bargaining phase of some prospective deals...

 

[Corn Flake]

If he isn't overpaid why hasn't he been moved already?

a) no rush

b) Franson and Fraser not signed yet. Need to keep him in case things don't work out with one or both of those two

 

[Bullfrog]

So is our defense corps that good that a legit 2nd pairing guy can barely crack the lineup?  I think we do have quite a bit of depth in skill back there but they're not that amazing.

I wouldn't say that. Though I'll admit I have no way of justifying single minute of Kostka vs. Liles.

 

[Kessel Run]

I'll be mad if Franson is traded and immediate help doesn't come back.

 

[Andy007]

Man what an awful deal, just like Grabovski if he weren't so overpaid he could be moved.

He really isn't that badly overpaid, relative to what other 2nd pairing d-men are going for.

So is our defense corps that good that a legit 2nd pairing guy can barely crack the lineup?  I think we do have quite a bit of depth in skill back there but they're not that amazing.

So then Gardiner isn't a legit 2nd pairing guy either? Frattin isn't a top 12 forward?

 

[Kin]

So then Gardiner isn't a legit 2nd pairing guy either? Frattin isn't a top 12 forward?

At the very least both of those answers are maybes.

 

[princedpw]

Of course, we dont know what is in Nonis brain and I wont try to speculate because he has done a bunch of things that I vehemently disagree with.  But ignoring that, it could be the case that literally, the buyouts and cap space do make the difference *this year* between keeping all the guys you want going forward at prices you think are reasonable going forward.  Everyone predicts the cap will rise dramatically soon.  eg, franson tight this year but sensible in the following years.

But I think regardless of what some people might want to attribute to whatever it is or isn't in Nonis' brain we still have to acknowledge that where they are is by design as opposed to an accident. If Nonis put himself in a position where he's unable to sign Franson at what he wants I don't think that can be said to have snuck up on him. In signing guys like Orr and Ranger and to some extent Clarkson I think Nonis would have had to have budgeted what he'd be willing/able to pay Franson this year. While you're right, if the Leafs didn't have the buyouts on their books it'd be easier to do it I still think you have to say that if Nonis can't pay Franson what he wants this year then it's a pretty good sign that keeping Franson was pretty low on the list of priorities.

I completely agree --- if it has snuck up on him, he is scary bad at math.  I am annoyed because I vastly prefer Liles buyout - Franson - Grabbo - Mac to Grabbo buyout - Bozak - Clarkson - Liles (which have very similar cap hits). The former being both better now and retaining more flexibilty capwise going forward, in my most humble opinion, of course.

 

[princedpw]

this is the kind of fact that kills me:


Cody Franson had more points, and more assists on Phil Kessel goals than Tyler Bozak in less minutes played

And this too:

The Leafs would have 2.5 million dollars more to spend on Franson if they had kept Grabbo over Bozak and bought out Liles.

 

[Kin]

I completely agree --- if it has snuck up on him, he is scary bad at math.  I am annoyed because I vastly prefer Liles buyout - Franson - Grabbo - Mac to Grabbo buyout - Bozak - Clarkson - Liles (which have very similar cap hits). The former being both better now and retaining more flexibilty capwise going forward, in my most humble opinion, of course.

I might too if push came to shove but honestly either way you're dealing with such a mediocre collection of players that it's really not worth getting worked up about.

Also that equation should probably have room for whatever they trade Franson for.

 

[princedpw]

I completely agree --- if it has snuck up on him, he is scary bad at math.  I am annoyed because I vastly prefer Liles buyout - Franson - Grabbo - Mac to Grabbo buyout - Bozak - Clarkson - Liles (which have very similar cap hits). The former being both better now and retaining more flexibilty capwise going forward, in my most humble opinion, of course.

I might too if push came to shove but honestly either way you're dealing with such a mediocre collection of players that it's really not worth getting worked up about.

Also that equation should probably have room for whatever they trade Franson for.

This is true. If they can get the equivalent of a first round pick out of a Franson trade, it will help mollify me.

 

[bustaheims]

This is true. If they can get the equivalent of a first round pick out of a Franson trade, it will help mollify me.

Well, the offer sheet compensation for the salary Franson is rumoured to be asking for is a 1st and a 3rd, so, I doubt the Leafs would take less than the equivalent of that.

 

[TML fan]

Almost all of Franson's value is on the scoresheet. He's a below average defenceman in my opinion. If his offence dries up I don't think he even cracks the roster. He's got PP specialist written all over him, and a short track record to boot. I like him as a player and he has potential, but if that's what he wants I'll take the future assets.