WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
Deebo said:
Aren't they allowed to walk away from an arbitrators decision?
Weird if not.
Random rumours
- Thread starter maplesyrup
- Start date
Aren't they allowed to walk away from an arbitrators decision?
Weird if not.
Capn_Crunch
New member
Deebo said:
Can we not just stick him with the marlies then? who cares if he doesn't clear waivers... lol
Nik the Trik said:
A couple of minor comments here:
-- if you think they are all mediocre players, unlikely to lead us anywhere, I'm surprised that you aren't more heavily against what has happened this offseason. Aren't you upset we tied ourselves to mediocre (and almost certainly declining) players for such a long time at such huge cap hits?
-- also, I won't try to argue with you, but I personally didn't view Grabbo as mediocre, though of course he is far from an allstar. Personally, I weight his play from 2010-2012 higher than his play in the lockout season in terms of what he is capable of going forward. During that time, he looked to me like he played like an upper tier 2nd line or lower tier 1st line center (ie: he was in the top 30 centers or so scoring, especially his even-strength scoring, and he had the best Corsi on the team against some good competition. I know you don't believe in Corsi and that's fine --- it seems to be the best tool I personally have to predict his future performance)
-- on Franson, this post summarizes a number of my thoughts:
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/7/27/no-its-a-bad-idea
Though, I can take a wait-and-see attitude on this. When (and if) a trade is made, I can assess it to see if indeed it looks like a fair trade or if it looks like Nonis got squeezed because he botched his cap space management this season.
Overall, this offseason is looking like it is going to wind up being a very inefficient one for the Leafs. And I find that upsetting because with the cap and teams being closer than ever to one another in terms of performance, efficiently managing your assets seems like it could be the thing that makes a difference. It wouldn't be so bad if the inefficiencies were constrained to the short term, but they aren't. They are pushed far in to the future, which leaves me without much hope going forward.
Kin
New member
princedpw said:
I've said a number of times I don't like the Clarkson deal. I mean, I'm not tearing my hair out and proclaiming that the Leafs are doomed for all of eternity because of it as seems to be the fashion but I wouldn't have signed it. Beyond that I don't really think anyone in question got signed to a "huge" cap hit. Bozak at 4.2 I think is a pretty tradeable deal down the road, especially if the cap jumps the way people think it will.
princedpw said:
Well, without going too deep into the semantics of what each of us consider mediocre I look at that as the Leafs going with Bozak over Grabo and I agree Grabo can be a pretty good player(He might have been my favourite current Leaf on a personal level FWIW) but in going with Bozak you're going with a guy who wasn't in the top 30 in scoring among C's but he was top 40 this year and is cheaper so maybe mediocre isn't the word there but I'd say the difference there is so slight it's not worth getting worked up over.
princedpw said:
I won't go into it in depth but the basic premise there seems to be "Nonis is stupid for losing Franson because he's really, really good but he won't be able to trade much for him because Franson isn't good enough to make teams make big offers for him" so there's some inconsistencies there regarding Franson's value.
princedpw said:
Eh. I think that's overstated. I think the thing that's ultimately going to decide championships isn't Grabo vs. Bozak or Bernier vs. Scrivens and cap space it's going to be....do you have a guy like Jonathan Toews? Or Patrice Bergeron? Do you have the fundamental building blocks. Clarkson, Bozak, Frattin, Mac....these are placeholders at best. Nobody's building a title around any of them.
That to me is the issue. Right now with this core the questions are going to be can Lupul stay healthy, can Rielly and Gardiner and Kadri develop to the peak of what we might think, can a clear cut Cup calibre #1 goalie emerge....those are the questions. If the answer is no then the team will need to be blown up anyway. The one thing this off-season says to me more than anything has nothing to do with Nonis but everything to do with Burke and what I've said since the Kessel trade. The idea that the Leafs were going to be able to build a cup winner by signing #1 centres and other big pieces in UFA or via trade was never realistic. Either they develop them internally or they're in trouble. If they do develop them internally? David Clarkson isn't going to be an impediment to success. If not....heck, Scott Gomez got traded.
J
Jalili
Guest
princedpw said:
Sounds like it was just thrown together.
The Leafs aren't bargaining from a position of strength with regard to Franson, so I don't think it's in their better interest to trade him now. And I don't think a prospect like Klefbom would be in the mix as a return.
Champ Kind
New member
While I would hardly call this a rumour, as I agree it's just been thrown toegther, why aren't the Leafs bargaining from a position of strength? They have 7 or 8 viable NHL defensemen, a top prospect who can likely provide offense from the blue line, and they own Franson's rights for the forseeable future. I'm not suggesting they'll get greater than market value, but I certainly think they're on good footing should Franson be traded.
J
Jalili
Guest
A Weekend at Bernier's said:
I think there's a few reasons. They first off haven?t been able to sign him and are in a cap crunch, and that?s going to hurt their leverage in any trade negotiation.
The timing is also not very good, as the salary cap decreased this summer and most teams already did their summer shopping and reached their internal cap. And the number of teams that might have a need or spot open for him is lower than it would be at say, the trade deadline, as spots will open up when D-men get injured, underperform, etc.
Deals often also take a while to figure out, like the Schenn/JvR for example deal that took the better part of a year to complete. Another team might be sitting on an offer the Leafs made to them for Franson, but are waiting for other things to happen before accepting it.
I could be way off, but I think there's a few too many constraints right now to realistically think we could get the kind of return we're looking for, for Franson.
Champ Kind
New member
Snoop Lion said:
Snoop, you make a lot of good points and it makes sense. But I think the whole cap crunch / inability to sign him hurting the Leafs bargaining position is oversstated. We need look no further than the Kessel trade - I don't think Phil being unsigned and the Bruins bumping up against the cap hurt the value they received for him. And, in a way that (at least to my knowledge) is different from the Franson situation, it was pretty clear at the time that Phil's time in Boston was over.
J
Jalili
Guest
A Weekend at Bernier's said:
That is true, regarding Kessel, as Boston did do very well in that trade. To put in perspective though, what Boston ended up getting out of that trade after the fact was nowhere near what his perceived trade value was at the time. Remember Toronto wasn't willing to trade Kaberle and our 7th overall pick in 09 for him, nor was Nashville, the other team bidding for him, willing to give up Colin Wilson. So arguably Kessel's trade value may have been hurt at the time by his unsigned status.
At the risk of going off-topic and re-hashing that trade again, I'll concede that Boston did do very well and that the Leafs could get pretty good value for Franson.
drummond said:
They could have had him for free on waivers less than a week ago.
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
I would offer up Jesse Blacker and see if we could get William Karlsson in return. Anaheim probably wants something a bit better than Blacker and more NHL ready, but I wouldn't trade Rielly or Gardiner. Anaheim might have to look elsewhere, unless they want a Marlie.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Active member
BlueWhiteBlood said:
Send them that Liles kid.