GhostofPotvin29
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Relevant (with scary table): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-why-the-leafs-allowing-36-shots-a-game-is-a-fatal-flaw/article15654201/#dashboard/follows/
Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread
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Stickytape
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Corn Flake said:
Thank you for posting this, it was really enlightening. I tried to pay close attention to their defensive system during the Buffalo game last night, and I recognized a lot of what they were doing.
It does look like Carlyle is trying to ease up on this system a little - maybe he knows that it doesn't work?
Often they would have just a dman and a wing in the corner, rather than shove the center in there, too, but they still collapse entirely to one side, still create dangerous pockets when the puck squirts back to the point, and are still doing that stupid #$*%& play where, rather than skate the puck out, they chip it to center and hope for another turnover, and that they don't accidentally ice it.
It really does help explain why the Leafs have such craptastic 3rd periods. Dudes are completely exhausted by then. I can see some upsides to the system, and I get what Carlyle is going for, but it obviously isn't working.
Potvin29 said:
Of course, you know as well as I that this isn't news. People have been saying the leafs are in trouble since last year and that their personnel decisions on the summer were particularly stupid and counter-productive. Somewhat surprisingly, their shot ratios seem to be getting worse. Though I guess that it is not really all that surprising when Nonis and Carlyle are determined to stick to their over-the-top Sarah-Palin-esque ignorance of basic math and the scientific method.
To be honest, I wish my team was the Buffalo Sabres right now. They are going to tank it for the 1st or 2nd overall pick and also have 17 1st round picks over the next 3 years. Next year and the year after that they will probably be near the bottom. 5 years from now they will begin to be competitive. What they offer is hope. The Leafs offer little hope until the people at the top are fired because their decision-making process is so flawed and they are a capped-out team locked in to some bad, long term contracts that are going to look progressively worse. We need to trade some of those contracts while we still can even though we just signed some of them. But of course, it won't happen. We'll try to scrape in to 8th place, but probably wind up in 10th for several years in a row.
I know I've had a few rants over the past 6 months and it is getting a little repetitive but what is a hockey board for?
With all our defence issues, why are we not trying Liles. What did he do to Carlyle that he will not use him. also he is doing something wrong that is causing his guys to burnout in the third. maybe some of the posters on here are right, his system, and use of players is not working, and needs to be changed.
I am the most positive fan on here and lately I have lost faith in the Coach, for whatever he is doing it is wrong. if they lose tonight, I will be in need of a break to stay sane.
I am the most positive fan on here and lately I have lost faith in the Coach, for whatever he is doing it is wrong. if they lose tonight, I will be in need of a break to stay sane.
Frank E
Active member
princedpw said:
Well, that management over at the Sabres got turfed a few weeks back for their effort.
I think Nonis has been addressing some of the issues. I think Clarkson was brought in to provide a more physical edge in the power forward department. The Leafs needed that.
They re-signed Lupul and Kessel...I'm not enamoured with the Bozak signing, but there really weren't any other centre options after they couldn't land Lecavalier, and at least they were in the running for him. They re-signed Kadri to a more proper deal than most were expecting...same for Franson.
They've got some talented defensemen that going into the season were showing some substantial promise. They just haven't performed up to expectations yet, but the season is still pretty young.
I said this last night, and I maintain that they need some more physical presence and offensive zone time. That takes hard physical work. They have to work harder, maintain pressure, and play a tougher nosed game in both the offensive and defensive zones.
We all know they've got the talent to score goals the more easy way - off the rush, but it seems that teams have figured that if they can stuff the rush in the neutral zone, the Leafs can't capitalize. They can't rely on that rush game, and are just going to have to play a tougher (more boring to watch) sustained cycle game down low.
The Leafs played a better 1st and 3rd period last night. They had a better forecheck going and Buffalo gave the puck away a lot particularly in the 3rd. The problem was the Leafs were gassed by then because they spent the entire 2nd period defending and Carlyle won't use his 4th line.
They still need to cut out that stretch pass and bring everyone a bit closer together, as well as get the wingers to stop collapsing so deep into the zone and get the defence to be more aggressive in their own end.
They still need to cut out that stretch pass and bring everyone a bit closer together, as well as get the wingers to stop collapsing so deep into the zone and get the defence to be more aggressive in their own end.
Arn
Well-known member
They seemed to be saying on TV last night that on the PK the winger was collapsing down low and leaving the attacking team's point man wide open to get a good shot through, this is then leading to the scrambles in front of the goal when the goalie kicks out a rebound from a screened shot or it hits a leg and obviously goalies getting out of position etc.
If the TV people can see this, surely it sounds a pretty easy thing to fix?
I vaguely recall that during the years when our PK was terrible part of the reason was the entire team collapsing in round the goal. Is it a confidence thing?
If the TV people can see this, surely it sounds a pretty easy thing to fix?
I vaguely recall that during the years when our PK was terrible part of the reason was the entire team collapsing in round the goal. Is it a confidence thing?
hockeyfan1
New member
The trouble with the Leafs is they're too predictable. Even when they have a lead, the opposition team just waits for the opportunity they know will come.
Carlyle needs to incorporate a more simplistic and flexible system, one that adapts to his players' strong points, offensive and defensive-wise. While the Leafs have shown they can score with the best of them, their shortcomings on the back-end will continue to make it difficult to sustain any semblance of a lead enroute to more wins.
Something's got to change.
Carlyle needs to incorporate a more simplistic and flexible system, one that adapts to his players' strong points, offensive and defensive-wise. While the Leafs have shown they can score with the best of them, their shortcomings on the back-end will continue to make it difficult to sustain any semblance of a lead enroute to more wins.
Something's got to change.
It all starts from the back end. Those stretch passes are killing them. Between constantly icing the puck and having those passes intercepted or deflected away, they can never maintain puck possession. It doesn't do any good to make a stretch pass to a stationary winger who has no choice but to tip the puck in, and then have nobody pursuing it with any speed. They are actually nullifying their greatest strength when they do that.
If they simplify their breakout, have everyone come back into the zone and make shorter passes they will be able to better take advantage of their speed through the neutral zone.
When they're on the forecheck, they need to start sending 2 guys deep, with the 3rd guy staying high to get back or to jump into the slot if they turn the puck over. Even if they have two guys deep they have the speed to get back so they will still be in good defensive positions.
In their own end they need to pressure the puck more. They are far too passive and way too deep in the zone. If the wingers stay high it will force the defence to back off the line or risk getting caught against a team with great speed. This will allow them to clear the zone faster. It's ok to leave the high slot open a bit because the goaltending has been solid, and the only players who should be there are the defencemen pinching, so if the wingers are doing their job everyone should be covered. Otherwise the centre will be there, but it's more likely he'll be supporting the defence as most teams will send a 2nd guy in to support the puck.
I feel like when the Leafs feel a bit of pushback, they default to their passive defensive system. The problem is, it's almost impossible to shift momentum once you're established in that mode. You become physically and psychologically exhausted having the other team come at you constantly. You stop paying attention to what you're doing and start watching the clock. At thy point you're not trying to win anymore, you're just trying not to lose. Ultimately, you end up beating yourself.
If they simplify their breakout, have everyone come back into the zone and make shorter passes they will be able to better take advantage of their speed through the neutral zone.
When they're on the forecheck, they need to start sending 2 guys deep, with the 3rd guy staying high to get back or to jump into the slot if they turn the puck over. Even if they have two guys deep they have the speed to get back so they will still be in good defensive positions.
In their own end they need to pressure the puck more. They are far too passive and way too deep in the zone. If the wingers stay high it will force the defence to back off the line or risk getting caught against a team with great speed. This will allow them to clear the zone faster. It's ok to leave the high slot open a bit because the goaltending has been solid, and the only players who should be there are the defencemen pinching, so if the wingers are doing their job everyone should be covered. Otherwise the centre will be there, but it's more likely he'll be supporting the defence as most teams will send a 2nd guy in to support the puck.
I feel like when the Leafs feel a bit of pushback, they default to their passive defensive system. The problem is, it's almost impossible to shift momentum once you're established in that mode. You become physically and psychologically exhausted having the other team come at you constantly. You stop paying attention to what you're doing and start watching the clock. At thy point you're not trying to win anymore, you're just trying not to lose. Ultimately, you end up beating yourself.
L K
Well-known member
Why is Liles still not called up?
Phaneuf - Gardiner
Franson - Liles
Rielly - Gunnarsson
No more Fraser getting walked around and pinching like he actually has the speed/offensive ability to justify pinches. No more Ranger getting the excuses of "he's working off the rust".
All three lines have a PMD at that point. The defense isn't going to be good defensively regardless of who we play. Get back to using speed and making this a rushing offense team rather than a collapse and counter-attack team.
Until the team trades for 1-2 stay-at-home defenders the team should be playing offensively. I have never understood the concept of making a team play against their strengths to fit a style that the clearly can't handle.
It's one thing if you have a young team and don't care about the results. This is a playoff team (or should be one) and they have all been in the NHL long enough to establish that they aren't a collapsing defense style of team.
Phaneuf - Gardiner
Franson - Liles
Rielly - Gunnarsson
No more Fraser getting walked around and pinching like he actually has the speed/offensive ability to justify pinches. No more Ranger getting the excuses of "he's working off the rust".
All three lines have a PMD at that point. The defense isn't going to be good defensively regardless of who we play. Get back to using speed and making this a rushing offense team rather than a collapse and counter-attack team.
Until the team trades for 1-2 stay-at-home defenders the team should be playing offensively. I have never understood the concept of making a team play against their strengths to fit a style that the clearly can't handle.
It's one thing if you have a young team and don't care about the results. This is a playoff team (or should be one) and they have all been in the NHL long enough to establish that they aren't a collapsing defense style of team.
Those are exactly the pairings that I would go with as well LK.
Even if the team is going to continue being stubborn and have Fraser or Ranger in the line-up, I would have one of them with Franson and keep the other two pairings together. Gardiner spent a decent amount of time with Phaneuf against Montreal so it might be something we see going forward.
Even if the team is going to continue being stubborn and have Fraser or Ranger in the line-up, I would have one of them with Franson and keep the other two pairings together. Gardiner spent a decent amount of time with Phaneuf against Montreal so it might be something we see going forward.
Also it honestly boggles my mind that Leivo hasn't been called up yet to replace Lupul.
GhostofPotvin29
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Fraser can hardly even skate anymore.
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